NFL THREAD

sdandrea1 · 2021-09-27T12:40:17+00:00

Last night's Packers v 49ers OMG.

azgreg

My Cards are starting the season with Josh Dobbs and Clayton Tune as their QBs with Kyler Murray on the PUP list.

Sneakylong

Like to see the Patriots pick up Colt McCoy. Always liked him. At 36 he’d be a good backup for New England.

garyt1957

Sneakylong To me, it's the Hall of Fame, not Hall of Pretty Good. If it was up to me I'd go in and cut out half the players in the MLB HoF. They should probably have an induction every 3-5 years. Doing it yearly means somebody that doesn't really belong is likely getting in

Sneakylong

garyt1957

It has a lot to do with the luck of the draw also. High draft quarterbacks go to shitty teams. Imagine Tom Brady going to a lousy team. On the flip side imagine a quarterback like Archie Manning going to a good team.

garyt1957

DonM Might be Zappe from New England.

Par4QC

DonM Give it up.....that team does not want 'the best'.
They have proven it every year since winning the SB. Let's say it is now 'historical' for them to not want that.😆

professor

Sneakylong However, I say he belongs in the HOF.

Nope, I wouldn't support that. One of his Super Bowl victories was a direct result of "the catch" (not the throw). He was mediocre and his team's victories are a group accomplishment. Several mediocre QB's have won Super Bowl games.

Sneakylong But when you beat the best quarterback ever in his prime and the best team of that era twice in Super Bowls because of your play.

By that standard Nick Foles goes to the HOT. I don't think so.

johnnydoom

professor He was mediocre

Starting every game for 14 seasons isn't very common for mediocre quarterbacks. Current top 10 in career yardage and touchdowns isn't very common for mediocre quarterbacks. He had a lot of talent around him and great coaching, but he has stats, durability, and a team that had faith in him too - 3 things Foles hardly ever had (I love Foles BTW). Leadership, durability, and winning are HOF qualities. Sure, there are some flashy non-Super Bowl winners above him in both stats (Marino, Rivers, Ryan), and perhaps they are better than he is, but he got it done when he had his chance.

Sneakylong

professor

We part ways here. Lol. Eli Manning is a close call. But I’d put him in. On the Tyree catch the Patriots pass rush had him dead to rights, literally had him by his shirt tail. But he escaped and made an iconic play.

The Manningham catch was great as well. Nick Foles is a no go. Lol Had Belichick swallowed his pride and put Malcolm Butler in for just one of the late 3rd and longs the Patriots would have another Super Bowl.

Bravopilot

johnnydoom Is this coming from an Ole Miss background? Eli is just not that good in the NFL. Remove a couple of minutes from 2 Super Bowls, he would be 0-2. Granted, beating Brady counts for something. But not HOF.

ode

MartinD and if eli gets in does Matthew Stafford🤔. I'd have to look at his numbers......and IMO this a lot like comparing Jim Kelly and Donavan McNabb......whose numbers are eerily similar!

garyt1957

ode they didn't call Stafford Pad Statford in Detroit for nothing. He'd get in on numbers alone but now that he's won a SB he's a lock

ode

garyt1957 peeked at his numbers...3 monster years and a bunch of mediocre years, but when you look at the totals they are a bit eye popping.....but they aren't that much better than Eli's less the TD/Int ratio. Hmmm, it's actually a good comparison! I think if one thought about who was the better QB most would say Stafford, but the numbers are close. Eli never had a monster year but amassed some solid numbers with several decent years. Biggest difference is being on many good teams and Stafford not so much. If one is questioning Eli's HOF resume, best question Stafford's!

professor

Sneakylong We part ways here. Lol. Eli Manning is a close call. But I’d put him in. On the Tyree catch the Patriots pass rush had him dead to rights, literally had him by his shirt tail. But he escaped and made an iconic play.

Parting ways is much healthier when the topic is football.
Tyree gets at least half the credit for that catch!
My comment about Foles was a joke. His moment came and he got it done! Awesome! Never qualifies for HOF consideration.

Sneakylong

professor

That Super Bowl is a tough one for Patriot fans. Belichick’s stubbornness was indefensible. Since losing Brady he’s been exposed. I used to think it was 80-20 Brady. I’m up to 90-10 now.

Another bone head move by Belichick was having Matt Patricia as offensive coordinator last year. A real head scratcher.🙄

azgreg

Sneakylong
His arm is dead. It's time for him to start his coaching career.

professor

Sneakylong ...Matt Patricia as offensive coordinator last year. A real head scratcher.

And now he's fulfilling some sort of function with the Eagles... Hoping that's a positive!

Sneakylong

Zappe cleared waivers and is back on the Patriots practice squad.

garyt1957

ode If one is questioning Eli's HOF resume, best question Stafford's!

I definitely didn't think Stafford was Hall worthy although I knew the numbers alone would get him in. Now that he has a Super Bowl, he's a lock. He amassed a ton of yards because the Lions were always behind and teams would go into the prevent D and let the Lions run up and down the field.
He's a good QB but unlike a guy like Brady or Rodgers who amassed their stats for winning teams I was just never overly impressed. Tough guy though, I'll give him that.

Ack8236

johnnydoom There's little doubt in my mind that Calvin Johnson and Barry Sanders may very well have been the greatest receiver and running back in NFL history, but if Detroit fans could have won one Super Bowl in each of their era's by trading them for other players would they have wished they did?

Stafford had a TON of support from Lions fans, it felt like we won a Super Bowl by proxy. Johnson and Sanders had a ton of...sympathy, for being stuck on the Lions. I'm sure they would have the same support had they gone to another team. Tough call to win a Super Bowl by trading those guys, they are immensely popular and well liked. Being a Lions fan, not ever even being IN a Super Bowl is sort of a badge of honor, but they'd probably trade a win for those guys.

professor

Ack8236 we won a Super Bowl by proxy

Well, that's an interesting concept. LOL

johnnydoom

Bravopilot Nope. I'm a University of Memphis fan, and now a Mississippi State fan since my boy goes there. Didn't watch Eli play much in either college or the pros. He was good when his team was good, and not good when his team was not good. You just don't get that many starts if your team thinks you're holding them back. Lots of fans may not think much of him, and yes he did throw a lot of interceptions, but he obviously had the respect of his team and his coaches and when they got to the Super Bowl he helped them seal the deal. Did he just get lucky or have teammates and coaches that pulled him over the line? I don't think so. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and perception - mine is that he was a great QB and a proven winner. Still at number 10 all-time in both total completion yardage and passing touchdowns. In comparison, he played two more games than John Elway and threw for 5,000+ more yards, 66 more touchdowns, and only threw 18 more interceptions in winning the same number of Super Bowls.

MartinD

johnnydoom Still at number 10 all-time in both total completion yardage and passing touchdowns. In comparison, he played two more games than John Elway and threw for 5,000+ more yards, 66 more touchdowns, and only threw 18 more interceptions in winning the same number of Super Bowls.

The statistics look better, yes, but don't take into account the changes to the game - it was much easier for quarterbacks to rack up yardage and touchdowns in the 2010s than it was in the 1990s. (Has anyone come up with a way of adjusting football statistics to take account of the playing conditions at the time? I'm thinking of something along the lines of wRC+ and ERA+ in baseball, which both compare a player's performance against league average.)

azgreg

johnnydoom and now a Mississippi State fan

We're kicking your ass next week!
🙂

ode

johnnydoom John Elway

😳.....different eras. It's not a good case for Eli being in the hall to compare his numbers to Elway's. Eli could not hold John's jock.

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