Par4QC Not going to happen, imo, if there is no TV exposure

I agree. Without LIV being broadcast on TV then the PGA Tour will continue to survive. The question is in what format? Will they change their business model to something Paul McGinley talked about or stick with the model they have now?

And as you mentioned before how many top players will go to LIV? They have some known names at the moment, but not many top ranked players.

And if LIV signs some of the new up and comers and there's no TV exposure and world ranking points, how will they be recognized as top talent?

Not many will see them play and they don't get into the Majors because they aren't getting world ranking points. But they'll have a lot of money. lol

    Spuzz Makes me laugh every time I hear them thanking the volunteers "because without them, we couldn't have the tournament" when they should be adding "and we can't light hundies for our cigars" or something similar.

    Without them we wouldn't have free labor! And we make them buy shirts and don't let them bring their own food or drink in so they have to buy ours lol. Taking advantage of your love of the game!

      Par4QC I don’t think JT is on the PGA board … ? Rory is for certain though, and earning his millions shilling. Not bad for averaging 1 hour per week work.

        I look at what the Saudi's are doing as trying to gain "in roads" to other ventures, getting their tentacles out there and seeing what sticks. IMO that's what this is.

        I'm surprised the Saudis haven't bought more sports teams. From what I've read everyone should own one just for the tax benefits.....you don't have to pay any.

        johnnydoom My Mark McGuire memories aren't fond because I believe his biggest accomplishments were made through cheating the system.

        How did he cheat the system?? Guy hit 49 dingers, his 1st full year, in 1987. Andro was OTC, yes, no?

            https://www.yardbarker.com/golf/articles/amp/bob_costas_slams_players_joining_liv_golf/s1_12680_37587998

            “There are no two ways around it, it’s blood money,” Costas said. “This is not like the AFL was once a challenge to the NFL, or the ABA, or world hockey association, to the established leagues. Maybe fans of a team would say, ‘Gee we wish our guy didn’t go over there.’ That isn’t the case. This is Saudi blood money. We know all we need to know about the royal family and what they have done. It’s not just Khashoggi, it’s not just the ongoing oppression of women and gays, they’re directly or indirectly tied — according to US and British intelligence — to the 9/11 event.”

            “Guaranteed money. $200 million dollars for Phil Mickelson even if he never wins a tournament. The prize money’s on top of that. $115 million, as I understand it, for Dustin Johnson. But what’s the price for your soul?” Costas asked. “What’s the price for integrity? If Aaron Judge goes and signs someplace else there’ll be people who grumble, ‘Well how much is enough?’ but there’s nothing inherently immoral in playing for the San Francisco Giants or whatever team he chooses as opposed to the New York Yankees. This is a clear-cut matter of morality.” 👏

            Wonder if Bob owns anything made in China? 🙄

              LBlack14 How did he cheat the system?

              I don't know for sure if he actually did. In my mind he did.

              Observation of 49 home runs with 557 at bats and 71 walks is still quite a bit different than 70 home runs in 509 at bats with 162 walks. Basically he hit 21 more homers with 99 less at bats in which he was not walked. 9.9 at bats not walked per home run to 5.0 at bats not walked per home run. That's a huge improvement for a guy who was already one of the best.

              Doesn't mean he did anything against the rules and for all I know he just improved his hitting that much. In fact, I'm pretty sure baseball still acknowledges his accomplishments as official. Just my own personal bias against what I think was likely steroid use given the evidence that Sosa and Bonds also put up. Looks like he had very low at bats in 93 and 94 and then when he came back closer to full seasons his home run efficiency almost doubled. Just looks funny to me and therefore I am suspicious. But it's happened before. George Foster suddenly got huge improvements at his home run efficiency for a couple of years in his career before the steroid era.

                Sneakylong Not the question to ask imo. Irrelevant.

                We just disagree, it's very relevant. If the saudi's want to waste billions on a campaign that is totally worthless, more power to them. Only the stupidest of the stupid will fall for it, and they probably already are clueless about Saudi misdeeds

                  Stu1961 Another great example of sportswashing that didn't work though.

                  Still waiting for someone to give me an example of when it DID work

                    JoeHatesSnow worldwide they think it's working for them.

                    Operative word is "THINK" it's working for them. Sneaky named Hitler trying to sportswash Nazism in the 30's. How did that work for them? I haven't heard anybody say "You know, those Nazis weren't so bad" any time in my life. How did it work for the Soviet Union or China? And it's not going to work for SA. People are stupid, but they're not THAT stupid.

                        johnnydoom I don't even really care about the LIV tour. I didn't make any attempt to watch it last week. However, I do not think it is an entity of evil either. It is another option. One that I think is likely to fail, but maybe not if enough of the top talent heads for the guaranteed money.

                        I don't care about it either. I can't imagine ever watching it, but I don't really watch PGA Golf either. I just get a kick out of the faux outrage by the moralists who in my opinion are just jealous that they can't cash in, all while doing business with some even worse regimes.
                        I'm sure there's a few sincere people like Sneaky who really believe what they spout, but I'm betting 95% would immediately take a job with a Saudi company if it simply doubled their salary

                            LBlack14 How did he cheat the system?? Guy hit 49 dingers, his 1st full year, in 1987. Andro was OTC, yes, no?

                            That's my question, too. Has he ever admitted to doing real steroids? He had that Andro bottle in full view in his locker. He obviously wasn't worried about anybody seeing it. Any of us could have bought the same stuff OTC. I doubt it even worked, like most supplements.

                                garyt1957 Has he ever admitted to doing real steroids?

                                https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=4816607

                                Don't know the veracity of the source and I also don't know if he just said something in order to try and make the attention go away. Sorry to continue on this off topic, my intention was only to convey my personal feelings about someone's legacy, not to claim that I was in the majority or that I was right.

                                  Sneakylong Wonder if Bob owns anything made in China? 🙄

                                  He was the head announcer at the Olympics held in China. Why didn't he refuse to appear in that murderous, slaving, heinous country? Hmmm? Bob took that NBC money and yakked his head off like he was in the Land of the Free. A perfect chance for Bob to take a stand. Hypocrite much?

                                      garyt1957 Operative word is "THINK" it's working for them. Sneaky named Hitler trying to sportswash Nazism in the 30's. How did that work for them? I haven't heard anybody say "You know, those Nazis weren't so bad" any time in my life. How did it work for the Soviet Union or China? And it's not going to work for SA. People are stupid, but they're not THAT stupid.

                                      Maybe you're right. Hard to believe a government with the resources of the Saudis put a guy in charge of billions and he missed the whole, "no one likes the Nazis" thing. Heads are gonna roll over this deal. 😲

                                          garyt1957

                                          The money came from NBC. He wasn’t paid by China. MSB controls the fund that pays the LIV golfers.

                                          Plus the real issue is with the Olympic committee that chooses to hold the games in these countries.

                                          As for your continued concern that sportswashing doesn’t work. How do you know it’s not working?There’s a lot people who are ignorant of world affairs and couldn’t tell you who MSB is or Saudi Arabia’s history on human rights / atrocities.

                                          Haven’t you ever seen the late night talk shows ask people on the street general knowledge questions? It would amaze you how ignorant many people are.

                                          Propaganda works. People believe lies despite overwhelming evidence that they’re lies. Naïveté and stupidity is a thing. PT Barnum was right. Some people are easily fooled.

                                          But the real issue isn’t whether sportswashing works or not. It’s that some people are ok with them doing it and are ok with the people taking the money. Unfortunately being paid to look away is nothing new.

                                          So in that respect it’s working for them. So yup, we agree to disagree.

                                              Sneakylong There’s a lot people who are ignorant of world affairs and couldn’t tell you who MSB is or Saudi Arabia’s history on human rights / atrocities.

                                              There sure is, which as I pointed out earlier, has nothing to do with sportswashing. If they don't even know who Saudi Arabia is, how can there be sportswashing?

                                              Sneakylong The money came from NBC. He wasn’t paid by China. MSB controls the fund that pays the LIV golfers.

                                              Plus the real issue is with the Olympic committee that chooses to hold the games in these countries.

                                              If Costas is so moral he easily could have taken a stand and refused to go to China and work the games. Imagine what a spotlight that would have shown on China's human rights record. Even those stupid people who don't know about SA that you talk about would have been informed on China. But what did Moral Bob do? Not a damn thing, he took the money and went. But now he's got the nerve to tell other people to take a stand?

                                              And I'm still waiting for that ONE time that sportswashing has worked? Just one.