Sneakylong 🤨You are quite a selective 'buyer'.

Where were your non-golf shirts made? Don't worry about phones, golf clubs, trivial things. Men do not sew.

Don't get me wrong, I get pissed every time I go to buy shirts. 10 different damn countries, but not the U.S., and they are either drug cartel, pirate, or little girl worker countries. Of course, I'm not going to pay $60 just to get 1 shirt, when I want 5, either. But, I probably should, no more often than I buy any clothes. And they may even fit.

    Sneakylong I’m not going to venture down a political rabbit hole; I’ll just say, the beliefs of the Saudis don’t match mine, but I buy products everyday from Countries I hate and nobody seems to give a shit that the NBA salaries are largely funded by Chinese profits. So you can be as righteous as you want to be and if you really want, I’ll show you how you are no better than the guys taking money from these assholes.

      rsvman2

      You never answered my question. Where is your line? Do you have one? Care to share it? I assume since China makes medical equipment you feel that you can’t criticize China’s human rights? 😏

      Again, using your criteria no one can criticize anything unless they live like a monk. Sportswashing is nothing new. Hitler tried to do it in the 1936 Olympics.

      It was legitimately and rightfully criticized then as is the criticism legit with the Saudi’s doing it now. But I assume in 1936 if you owned anything made in Germany you had to keep your mouth shut.🙄

          Sneakylong I don't know what my line is. Nobody is ever going to be dangling millions of dollars in my face to do anything, so I will never have to make that decision.

          The only point I was trying to make is that it is almost impossible to live in the modern world without supporting horrible things in one way or the other. And that it strikes me as odd that people who never said anything about all that other stuff all of a sudden have a bee in their bonnet about this. That's all.

          A lot of talk about 'sport washing.' Not sure that's what is happening here, per se. First, I'm not sure the Saudis are all that worried about how they are perceived in the world. They have been villains for a long time, and everybody knows it. Why are they suddenly interested in how they look? And if they were interested in that, why choose a sport like golf, which is not really a very popular sport for watching anywhere in the world. Why not a soccer league? Or a baseball league? Or an American football league, or a basketball league. All of these sports have far more followers than golf. So if the whole point was to distract the world from their atrocities, why not do it with a popular sport?

              MartinD any individual

              IMO, FIPJAM is an exception....his issues with $/gambling are fairly well known.

                rsvman2 why not do it with a popular sport?

                They did. They own a UK soccer team I understand. By the way, their 'image' washing has been going
                on for several years with BS propaganda.

                    Spuzz I'm just trying to be a good boy and listen to those who know more about this than I do. I'm not sure who is right, and who is wrong. I'm pretty sure that there are only a small handful (probably be able to count them on one hand with a few fingers left over)of counties that have kept the human rights violations and other fucked up crap. No country is perfect, just as there is no perfect person.
                    However, I am content to sit here and eat popcorn and listen.

                        It must be the $54mil "bonus" changing some of these guys minds about playing for LIV!😁

                        azgreg

                        I mentioned this possibility in one of my posts earlier. I had read an article about this. They did sign a strategic alliance last year with the PGA Tour, but they could possibly either fully merge or the PGA buy the DP World Tour.

                        https://golficity.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-dp-world-tour/

                        "New Title Sponsor
                        Dubai Port World, or DP World for short, is a Dubai based logistics company who are the leading provider of global smart end-to-end supply chain and logistics solutions — perfect for helping a golf tour traverse the globe."

                        The Saudi’s could easily afford to buy the DP Tour. They’re making $1 billion dollars a day in oil. If that happened that would be a huge disruption.

                        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-26/saudi-arabia-s-oil-exports-hit-the-highest-level-since-2016

                        Paul McGinley said last night that one option he’s hearing from the business community is the PGA change it’s business model to a contract model. Where they sign the top players to big contracts and then they’d be contracted to play against the other top players more often.

                        If they did this they’d have to get rid of the Korn Ferry and Champions Tour and their charitable donations. That would be a drastic change. Hard to see that happening, but who knows.

                            rsvman2

                            It's a hot topic right now in golf circles with strong feelings on both sides. I'm just some guy yapping on a golf forum, but these guys put their money where their mouth is. @azgreg posted this tweet awhile back. Pumpkin Ridge is where the next LIV Golf event will take place. Tom Canzaro has some strong opinions in his article below.

                            https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzano-take-a-hard-pass-on-liv-golf?s=r

                                Sneakylong. I think you've changed the narrative a bit. There's absolutely nothing wrong with calling out the Saudis for human rights abuses. What I and I think others are saying is why criticize golfers for taking their money when we all do the same every day? I think rsvman2 's quote about " you stole a candy bar and your mad at the guy who robbed a bank" is spot on.


                                  Sneakylong good for them, they actually did something rather than just post faux outrage on a golf forum.

                                    Eguller And really, how has that changed their image in the world one iota. This " sportswashing" thing is completely ridiculous to me

                                        garyt1957 This " sportswashing" thing is completely ridiculous to me

                                        Maybe this will help you. But maybe not. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 😉

                                        "Sportswashing is the practice of an individual, group, corporation, or government using sport to improve their tarnished reputation, through hosting a sporting event, the purchase or sponsorship of sporting teams, or by participation in the sport itself. At the international level, sportswashing has been used to direct attention away from a poor human rights record and corruption scandals within a government. While at the individual or corporate level sportswashing is used to cover up and direct attention away from said person's or company's vices, crimes, or scandals. Sportswashing is an example of reputation laundering."

                                        "Sportwashing has been used to describe events as far back as the 1936 Summer Olympics which were held in Berlin, Germany during Nazi rule and where used to spread Hitler's ideals of race and anti-Semitism, and the 1934 FIFA World Cup which where held in Italy during fascist rule. Sportwashing has described as part of a nation's Soft power."

                                            Sneakylong Correct me if I'm wrong but the PGA Tour doesn't give anything to charities. Money is raised in the communities in conjunction a tournament but its not PGA money. Kind of like I go door to door to collect money for a charity but I'm not out any of my own money

                                                Sneakylong That's a definition of Sports Washing. I know exactly what it's supposed to be. Now I ask you, give me one example where it's worked?
                                                Do we suddenly view the Nazis favorably because they hosted the Olympics? Or almost 100 years later do we view the Chinese government any different because they recently held an Olympics? How about the old Soviet Union? Saudis have owned a soccer league, an IRL franchise, etc, how is that working for them? Sportswashing is a joke. And the joke is on anybody who thinks it works in any way

                                                    garyt1957 Correct me if I'm wrong but the PGA Tour doesn't give anything to charities. Money is raised in the communities in conjunction a tournament but its not PGA money. Kind of like I go door to door to collect money for a charity but I'm not out any of my own money

                                                    "Each PGA TOUR tournament provides individuals an opportunity to give back to the community in one of three ways – attending an event, volunteering, or donating money. Not-for-profit tournaments under the PGA TOUR umbrella donate their net proceeds to support local organizations, totaling more than $3 billion in donations to date."

                                                    Most charities like the United Way and Red Cross raise money thru donations. Nothing revelatory here.😏

                                                    "United Way organizations raise funds primarily via workplace campaigns, where employers solicit contributions that can be paid through automatic payroll deductions. After an administrative fee is deducted, money raised by local United Ways is distributed to local nonprofit agencies."

                                                    "You Can Make
                                                    a Difference
                                                    Support all the urgent humanitarian
                                                    needs of the American Red Cross
                                                    with your financial gift.

                                                    DONATE NOW"