Par...I have verbally described an idea of mine that I wasn't sure was legal. I have also fax'ed them with a hand drawn pic of an idea. The will respond very quickly and tell you what changes need to be made even with no proto head. The engineers are very accommodating.
Wilson Driver
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LBlack14 the ball just stays on the face a smidge too long?
http://golf.about.com/od/equipment/fl/Characteristic-Time.htm
Bangoman Do I really have to explain CT testing? Way too much typing and my eyes are going South on me.
Naaah Steve, don't bother. I'm with Uncle Steve on this one. I think the USGA is a joke all the way around. I would like to see this rule book about conforming and non conforming that some here keep talking about and leave no doubt about why the sole plate makes this a non conforming club.
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I give you this.....
•features that extend into or ahead of the face;
from.......http://www.usga.org/rules/equipment-rules.html#!rule-14621
Now see what I mean about everyone bitching here.....no one takes the time to study things before getting upset. The rules and procedures are written for easy reading.
Look at the BB 450 Landon. As I understand it from the face angle you are not to see any configurations which may also include other view points...just guessing on that. I told them to explain to me why that makes it illegal.., Plain in shape ruling they said. Now remember that the 450 was already on the market for sometime and was deemed legal by USGA. They tried to reverse that decision,
In my mind this was never going to end well.
The point about acknowledging the rules and regulations as it relates to equipment, however stupid I may personally find some of them, are there. If there is any uncertainty about the equipment spec regulations, then the onus is ultimately on the manufacturer to seek clarity before moving forward. This is precisely why companies like TaylorMade, PING, Callaway, Mizuno, Titleist and Cobra invest a significant amount of revenue with regard to research and development.
A reality show involving amateur golfers designing high-tech equipment, despite some means of oversight from the company associated with the show, by default was always going to push the boundaries as far as what they could and couldn't get away with. That was really part of the show plot, right? To hopefully design something that would push the performance envelope, while creating something completely different aesthetically, that would generate enough hype and potential controversy, to at least grab attention from potential would-be buyers, while at the same time generating enough tv ratings to get people to tune into a reality show.
The USGA, however arrogant, stubborn and outright asshatish as the organization truly is, was never going to completely ignore specific standards simply because of a one-off reality tv program. If they did, then all of these other equipment manufacturers who are much more invested in R&D would exploit that to no end, and rightfully so.
I'm not fond of the USGA, but they aren't that stupid. They were never going to consider relaxing their standards simply because of the Golf Channel's inability to provide quality programming on their network. This reality show concept was doomed from the very get-go.
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The second part of the same report of the mayor of Medellin Columbia is more fascinating than the tricking the guerrillas out of the jungle.
The guerrillas could return to the jungle anytime they feel like it, pick up the rifle and back to the way it was just like that. The campaign gave them free ticket to take a R & R. True impact is still to be seen.
The changes in the city of Medellin has deeper and stronger impact to the country than louring the guerrilla out of the jungle. . The changes of the city gave the people "hope" , a way to get to a better life. Hope is a very powerful state of mind.
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Bangoman thx....does the usga need to test with every config?
Anyway, does it make sense from your perspective that the cor/CT would go up with an extra few grams of weight? I could see the moi changing with moving the weight, but the cor/ct?
You should name your first Omg driver with a big middle finger emblem followed by Submit This
or
Plain in Shape followed by a big middle finger emblem
Wasn't the former equipment head of the USGA involved in the show, Frank Thomas???? I'm shocked if he was involved that they allowed an illegal driver to win the competition.
Desperate attempt to get attention seems to have worked, well done Wilson, well done.
Landon, I'm pretty sure that if the ball stays on the face too long, it offers a distance advantage. Therefore, the answer to your question "Is it really too hot?" would be "yes," if configured with the heavier weight.
Not that the average golfer would be able to realize even a yard of extra distance, but from a technical standpoint the driver could be marketed as "too hot for the USGA."
Wow we have not had a thread this long since FGI went belly up. That was fun reading the back and forth. I have no opinion nor do I care about it. I no longer keep a handicap, not do I play in tournaments. That is not to say that I don't have an opinion on the USGA. When the book to explain the rules is three times (or more) larger than the rule book you know that there is a problem. I get tired of the keeper of the rules saying that the rules are easy to follow when even the Pros who play this game for millions of dollars don't know the rules or can not decipher them either. I am not sure the ratio of those who keep a handicap versus those who just play to play the game. But I would think there are way more who play the game and don't keep a handicap. Thus they are free to play any club they want whether it is conforming to the rules of not. I would guess they don't really care and in fact if it is TOO HOT for the USGA they might ever gravitate to it albeit not for almost $600. These clubs today are getting so expensive it really is ridiculous.
And then came the slow methodical drip of truth surrounding the details.
Snippets added (for those not interested in reading the article), and a link provided for those that are.
http://golfweek.com/2016/12/13/usga-wilson-triton-raised-red-flags-immediately/
"...When we saw the product, there were certain features of it that immediately caused conformance concerns."
"...the USGA did not receive Triton test samples until Nov. 21, just four days before the product went on sale.
"...the turnaround time for testing products is “about 14 days."
This debacle was destined to be a flaming grease fire from Day One, reminding us that Golf Channel would do well to go back to a time when airing segments of Shell's Wonderful World of Golf, Playing Lessons with the Pros, Golf Talk Live with Peter Kessler, and similar authentic, real-golfer quality programming had yet to be replaced with Big Break Whatever, Caddyshack or Tin Cup reruns, and whatever other reality-based cockamamie filler-fluff bullshit they religiously opt for as opposed to quality programming.
In my mind, Golf Channel isn't immune from assuming the lion's share of blame in all of this.
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PA-PLAYA In my mind, Golf Channel isn't immune from assuming the lion's share of blame in all of this.
No, they are not, and that is what I've been trying to point out. Everyone is jumping the USGA.....hey, they got the rules written down....they let you send in a mockup for free and give opinion of such....for free. Everything is explained so that anyone sending in a head should already know if it's going to pass or not, imo. Hell, some even send them in, knowing they will fail, in order to get the "illegal" stamp....legally, to have written proof in order to create high interest in such heads.
TGC has a huge stake in all this, to the point they get money from the sales also. It is stated at the bottom of the site where you buy them.(I've posted this in a thread.....somewhere here) So, imo, the onus is on TGC, as much as or more than, Wilson. Forget the USGA, not their fault. I'd be repeating myself if I said I think TGC sought out a company in order to make this series, but I will as I do believe that is how it was done. Wilson just happened to be the stupid co. that fell into the shitstorm. I doubt if they've ever produced a driver that was deemed non-conforming, but all other companies most certainly have.(not so sure about PING).
Now, does anyone have a bit of a memory here....remember the Wishon illegal driver head(purposely produced that way) and what Tom sold the heads for? Does anyone also remember what those heads were selling for on the internet?? So, this stupid, uglyass driver head could now go from an overpriced POS to an upscale club for a lot of players!! And for a lot more money than Wilson/TGC is selling them for.