Par4QC The thing with soft or hard stepping....don't you change flex point at some point, raise/lower? Which may change ball flight, and spin rates? I don't know, never studied that. Maybe Scott can weigh in.

Yea you do, especially with a double step. I thought you might have experience with it since you go through a lot of iron builds for yourself. I have no hands on experience.

Project x 5.5 old school but great numbers and very stable. It would be my steel choice. Only thing that scares me are the horror stories of joint pain. Prosoft inserts would be going in those.

      Typhoon Only thing that scares me are the horror stories of joint pain. Prosoft inserts would be going in those.

      I've been lucky, I guess. I don't have those problems, yet anyway. From all the work/type of work I used to do, you'd think my wrists/elbows/shoulders would be shot to shit.
      But, imo, it's not what the shaft is made of causing those problems for people, it's the weight. You can change from steel to graphite, but if it's the same weight, it's still 'pulling' on all joints throughout the swing. And I think that is what causes the pain, more so than hitting the ball. Ferchrissakes, the ball is rubber! Probably only a handful here, like you, that would be hitting the ground after the ball.
      Then again, most of us are probably hitting the ground before the ball, and much more often.🤔 We deserve any pain that comes from that.😅

          Par4QC This is the reason you should not fit anyone that is a really good player into graphite, unless they are getting the correct numbers.

          I’m confused by this. Isn’t that what fittings are all about….getting the right numbers for the customer? 😊 I chose graphite for the LogicalOne irons because of the benefits of graphite. The ability to specifically tune the overall profile of a graphite shaft versus steel is much greater, from a manufacturing perspective. I’ve fortunately had the pleasure of working with several professional golfers and low (and mid) handicap golfers who have experienced better numbers because of graphite.

          Just my experience/thoughts, to provide some details supporting the opposite direction of Rex’s comment. 😊

              LogicalOne golfers who have experienced better numbers because of graphite.

              Lighter overall weight actually helps some players. I haven't seen a 50 - 60 gram steel iron shaft yet.

                Par4QC I've been lucky, I guess. I

                I've noticed that "perfect" strikes with a steel shaft are painless at impact. Mediocre ball striking with steel shows up the next day when all my elbow and shoulder joints are inflamed from the accumulation of steel swings. Graphite actually does dampen impact vibration better than any insert. If I want to play 4 days/week and occasionally more, I have to use graphite.

                    Par4QC But, imo, it's not what the shaft is made of causing those problems for people, it's the weight. You can change from steel to graphite, but if it's the same weight, it's still 'pulling' on all joints throughout the swing. And I think that is what causes the pain, more so than hitting the ball. Ferchrissakes, the ball is rubber!

                    So you use steel in all your woods and hybrids too right? 😉

                        LogicalOne Well, it didn't come out right. 😄
                        A lot of people want the graphite to help with aches/pains, or just the looks, or because it's the 'in thing' today. If they demand it, I would be one to refuse the fitting. Not going to have someone come back on me and say they hate them, after I told them they would. It's why I only do for me only.

                            sdandrea1 Have I recently fallen and hit my head....F no!! 😄
                            Graphite in fw clubs and drivers feel better/work better. That sound contradictory over what I said....it shouldn't if you give it some thought. Irons are completely different than your other clubs. They are not designed to be 'random area' hits.
                            All you have to do is watch the Pros to see what I'm saying. Irons are like darts for them while their other clubs are all over the place.
                            Maybe they should all be using 'all steel'. 🤔

                                DonM I also play hybrids up to the 7. Might get an 8 hybrid soon.

                                  sdandrea1 But, you are never going to use the same weight graphite that you would use in steel. My point.
                                  If you could get a 60 gr. steel, it would probably be different. It's not what the shaft is made of causing the pains, it's the weights.

                                      In the past day I put a different shaft into a ladies 7 hybrid. The set that I bought (XXIO 11) didn't have a men's #7 hybrid available. The ladies version, however, did have a #7 hybrid. I found one on ebay and I also found another men's XXIO hybrid (a #4) which I further trimmed the shaft to fit the hybrid head that I had purchased. The only problem was that I found that XXIO actually makes a completely different head for the ladies than they do for men. When I received the head, I found that it was a 31° head where the men's version is 29°. So, I guess I now have a #8 hybrid instead of a #7. I did find a XXIO Prime #7 hybrid to take it's place and I ordered that. So, in the long run I gained a #8 hybrid. Sooner or later I'll need a #8 hybrid. I'll try it to see if it works for me. I found that I definitely like a #7 hybrid. I started out with just a #3 hybrid many years ago but have slowly added a #4, #5, #6 and #7. For this set I didn't get the #3 .

                                      Man I build stuff way too infrequently. Anyhow, this go round was lead by a couple short length drivers, a SL FW set I bought long ago, as well as, a hybrid that's been on the bench for 2-3 seasons.

                                      DonM SoooLong

                                      PSA Alert:
                                      Wear protective googles when you hit it.

                                        DonM 18 degree SoooLong that I got from @Rickochet ? a couple of years ago.
                                        Gonna try it at 44 inches to hit over trees on a short dogleg and a couple other tee shots.

                                        I still have my 18° Sooolong. I am hanging on to it in case I can ever play again. I had just reshafted it before I broke my arm. I know that Spuzz hates these but I still think they are very good heads.

                                          Par4QC But, you are never going to use the same weight graphite that you would use in steel. My point.
                                          If you could get a 60 gr. steel, it would probably be different. It's not what the shaft is made of causing the pains, it's the weights.

                                          Might be. But... I had bad elbow (2) tendonitis from LD and hitting so may balls ( mostly steel early on ) and
                                          when I made the complete switch to graphite, the tendonitis went away and never came back. I did try
                                          steel shaft inserts without much luck FYI. I personally feel that there must be something to harsh vibration
                                          dampening going on with graphite. Love some steel shafts, but.....