Par4QC I've used graphite in irons a lot the past 30 years. It just depends on what the shaft profile is like. I used to have some that were 110g, and they are still the best I've ever used. But, that comparison is made from age 50 to now, even though I've never been that long with irons; 6i was my 'go to' perfect 150. Now, no iron goes that far. 😅
The only set of graphite I have now are the newer Recoil Dart 75. Very nice, and much better than the older Recoil. I am playing steel currently though.
Admittedly, I've only used graphite iron shafts for the looks, mainly. No wrist, elbow, shoulder troubles.

So Rex, let me pick what’s left of you brain since you build sets of irons every day amd a half.

I know it’s a month after I talked about the MMT 105s. I hit it outside alongside a few steel shafts . The MMT looked like a winner in the air. When I went back to Trackman though, it spun 1000 rpm’s more than the others and I lost 7 yards of carry.

I like the feel of a slightly heavier shaft amd I don’t lose any ball speed. Trackman showed me that. The project x 5.5 at 115 grams was good too. The MMT 105 also comes in TX at 113 grams.

My question for you is how would a double softstep on the TX be? The shafts do play stiff which is why I’m thinking double. I just like the weight.

And there is a lot of talk about the shafts being “tip heavy”, which makes them swingweight high. Maybe that’s why they felt flimsy to me… too much head feel. The swingweight issue I could solve with going 1/4” shorter and the 3 grips under the grip.

      Typhoon When I went back to Trackman though, it spun 1000 rpm’s more than the others and I lost 7 yards of carry.

      This is the reason you should not fit anyone that is a really good player into graphite, unless they are getting the correct numbers. Absolutely no gain, no purpose, unless they would be like me and just want 'the looks'. I've never found any graphite to 'flex' for me as one would think, until I go to A flex; thus they feel 'hard' to me as most steel does. Even then, I sometimes add head weight to get the 'feel' and flex I want. KBS Tour 90 shafts & those Nippon shafts are steel shafts I've found that actually feel softer than any graphite.

      I don't know much about fitting, except for myself. I know what I want to 'feel', and numbers be damned; they mean nothing to my swing. I'm not going to lose a lot of distance nor am I going to gain.

      People talk about having physical problems and want graphite. I don't see anything in using them that is going to help. Like you found, the tips of graphite can be heavy and that will lead to the same feel as steel, imo. There are many products that can be used with steel to take away the 'sting' as some call it. You can still get vibrations with graphite as you get from steel. When I pulled the shafts from a couple of the Apex heads(steel) they had rubber inserts in them much like a weight; same shape, same lengths. TM irons have similar I've found. I've not looked around the internet to see if they are available to the public, which they should be.

      So, given same weight, I'd always choose steel over graphite. I'm back to using steel mainly now myself. Nothing heavy though, 90-105. And they feel soft sometimes.

      The thing with soft or hard stepping....don't you change flex point at some point, raise/lower? Which may change ball flight, and spin rates? I don't know, never studied that. Maybe Scott can weigh in.

          Par4QC The thing with soft or hard stepping....don't you change flex point at some point, raise/lower? Which may change ball flight, and spin rates? I don't know, never studied that. Maybe Scott can weigh in.

          Yea you do, especially with a double step. I thought you might have experience with it since you go through a lot of iron builds for yourself. I have no hands on experience.

          Project x 5.5 old school but great numbers and very stable. It would be my steel choice. Only thing that scares me are the horror stories of joint pain. Prosoft inserts would be going in those.

              Typhoon Only thing that scares me are the horror stories of joint pain. Prosoft inserts would be going in those.

              I've been lucky, I guess. I don't have those problems, yet anyway. From all the work/type of work I used to do, you'd think my wrists/elbows/shoulders would be shot to shit.
              But, imo, it's not what the shaft is made of causing those problems for people, it's the weight. You can change from steel to graphite, but if it's the same weight, it's still 'pulling' on all joints throughout the swing. And I think that is what causes the pain, more so than hitting the ball. Ferchrissakes, the ball is rubber! Probably only a handful here, like you, that would be hitting the ground after the ball.
              Then again, most of us are probably hitting the ground before the ball, and much more often.🤔 We deserve any pain that comes from that.😅

                  Par4QC This is the reason you should not fit anyone that is a really good player into graphite, unless they are getting the correct numbers.

                  I’m confused by this. Isn’t that what fittings are all about….getting the right numbers for the customer? 😊 I chose graphite for the LogicalOne irons because of the benefits of graphite. The ability to specifically tune the overall profile of a graphite shaft versus steel is much greater, from a manufacturing perspective. I’ve fortunately had the pleasure of working with several professional golfers and low (and mid) handicap golfers who have experienced better numbers because of graphite.

                  Just my experience/thoughts, to provide some details supporting the opposite direction of Rex’s comment. 😊

                      LogicalOne golfers who have experienced better numbers because of graphite.

                      Lighter overall weight actually helps some players. I haven't seen a 50 - 60 gram steel iron shaft yet.

                        Par4QC I've been lucky, I guess. I

                        I've noticed that "perfect" strikes with a steel shaft are painless at impact. Mediocre ball striking with steel shows up the next day when all my elbow and shoulder joints are inflamed from the accumulation of steel swings. Graphite actually does dampen impact vibration better than any insert. If I want to play 4 days/week and occasionally more, I have to use graphite.

                            Par4QC But, imo, it's not what the shaft is made of causing those problems for people, it's the weight. You can change from steel to graphite, but if it's the same weight, it's still 'pulling' on all joints throughout the swing. And I think that is what causes the pain, more so than hitting the ball. Ferchrissakes, the ball is rubber!

                            So you use steel in all your woods and hybrids too right? 😉

                                LogicalOne Well, it didn't come out right. 😄
                                A lot of people want the graphite to help with aches/pains, or just the looks, or because it's the 'in thing' today. If they demand it, I would be one to refuse the fitting. Not going to have someone come back on me and say they hate them, after I told them they would. It's why I only do for me only.

                                    sdandrea1 Have I recently fallen and hit my head....F no!! 😄
                                    Graphite in fw clubs and drivers feel better/work better. That sound contradictory over what I said....it shouldn't if you give it some thought. Irons are completely different than your other clubs. They are not designed to be 'random area' hits.
                                    All you have to do is watch the Pros to see what I'm saying. Irons are like darts for them while their other clubs are all over the place.
                                    Maybe they should all be using 'all steel'. 🤔

                                        DonM I also play hybrids up to the 7. Might get an 8 hybrid soon.

                                          sdandrea1 But, you are never going to use the same weight graphite that you would use in steel. My point.
                                          If you could get a 60 gr. steel, it would probably be different. It's not what the shaft is made of causing the pains, it's the weights.

                                              In the past day I put a different shaft into a ladies 7 hybrid. The set that I bought (XXIO 11) didn't have a men's #7 hybrid available. The ladies version, however, did have a #7 hybrid. I found one on ebay and I also found another men's XXIO hybrid (a #4) which I further trimmed the shaft to fit the hybrid head that I had purchased. The only problem was that I found that XXIO actually makes a completely different head for the ladies than they do for men. When I received the head, I found that it was a 31° head where the men's version is 29°. So, I guess I now have a #8 hybrid instead of a #7. I did find a XXIO Prime #7 hybrid to take it's place and I ordered that. So, in the long run I gained a #8 hybrid. Sooner or later I'll need a #8 hybrid. I'll try it to see if it works for me. I found that I definitely like a #7 hybrid. I started out with just a #3 hybrid many years ago but have slowly added a #4, #5, #6 and #7. For this set I didn't get the #3 .

                                              Man I build stuff way too infrequently. Anyhow, this go round was lead by a couple short length drivers, a SL FW set I bought long ago, as well as, a hybrid that's been on the bench for 2-3 seasons.

                                              DonM SoooLong

                                              PSA Alert:
                                              Wear protective googles when you hit it.