No nation, including our own, has a squeaky clean history of honoring the humane treatment of other human beings.

So from that standpoint, we (the US) are certainly not miles ahead of everyone else as it relates to truly caring that much about other people, here at home or the world over. So far be it from us to claim such a moral high ground that our own history suggests a dire struggle to attain.

How quickly we forget that we were the very ones who armed and supported the early remnants of what would later become the same terrorist organization that brought the towers down in NY on 9/11!

If that’s the standard, that no country should have business interests with other nations due to their history of lack of human compassion… no country would be doing business with another country.

(Except for maybe Canada 😁)

My beef with what these spoiled brats on the PGA tour are doing is that they’re showing little to no gratitude or appreciation whatsoever for the very organization that gave them everything they could ever want. I’m not saying the tour hasn’t capitalized on the success of their players. They have. But they’ve also donated a lot of money to local charities and causes that have allowed other helpful organizations to make a huge difference in the lives of those less fortunate.

It is their right, however. And it is also within our rights to point out the greed and self-seeking agendas of those who express such a lack of gratitude for what they have been given.

$.02

    garyt1957 Who decides enough money is enough? Most PGA players in the top 20 make more in a year then any of us make in a lifetime. But it takes big money to maintain a big lifestyle. Taxes on their ( sometimes multiple) houses can be $50k + a year.
    Maintenance on said houses, keeping a private jet in the air, etc.
    Who am I to tell them how much they need?

    I think that you're missing the point that I was trying to make - for any individual, no matter their circumstances, there will be a level of wealth where any additional money is irrelevant in terms of how it affects their way of life. I'm not making a judgement on any individual, or what they choose to do with the assets available to them.

        PA-PLAYA It is their right, however. And it is also within our rights to point out the greed and self-seeking agendas of those who express such a lack of gratitude for what they have been given

        I agree except for the word "given". I would say "earned" instead.
        Unless, the arrangement between the PGA Tour and it's members/employees/independent contractors has not been mutually beneficial on a 50-50 basis. If that is not so, then the players are also the beneficiaries of the PGA "charities" and have indeed been "given" their standing in golf.

        Also, I have only seen big mouth Phil talk negatively about the PGA.
        Most of the other players have expressed "disappointment" and whatnot, but have not resorted to name calling.
        The name calling, derogatory statements and insults have all come from the PGA and it's loyal subjects.
        It's very telling, imo.

            PA-PLAYA So far be it from us to claim such a moral high ground that our own history suggests a dire struggle to attain.

            History does show that we have always tried to expand human rights though. You're correct it has not been easy. Pretty damn hard actually. Like I said before sometimes it seems like it's one step forward and two steps backward.

            But whether it be the fight to free people from subjugation, women's suffrage movement, civil / voting rights, workers rights, women's reproductive rights, the right to marry interracially, gay marriage rights etc..

            We have in the end moved towards expanding human rights. And tried to make equality a real thing. It's been one hell of a struggle to live up to the promise of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for everyone in this country though.

            The difference again is that we have historically tried and despite periods of setbacks we keep fighting in favor of expanding human rights. And once a right is taken away it can take a long time to get those rights back.

            In the case of reconstruction after we pulled federal troops out of the south in the late 1870's and reconstruction ended. It took close to 100 years to get those civil / human rights back for the people affected in the south.

            Our history is full of terrible human rights abuses and atrocities. But we acknowledge them and learn from them and hopefully become better knowing our own history.

            This is not the case in Saudi Arabia. Instead of making the choice to expand human rights and stop the atrocities they've decided to try and have their cake and eat it too.

            They're trying to deceive everyone by using sports to appear to be what they are not. So there's a big difference between us and them regarding human rights. We've constantly kept trying to further human rights and they haven't.

              Spuzz It's very telling, imo.

              It seems to be. I doubt that the players are lacking gratitude for the organization. The reality is that organizations change over time and sometimes quite drastically based upon who is chosen to lead. If some of the players approached the leadership about something they believed wasn't in their best interest and the leadership told them to go pound sand, which they are in a position to do as long as they control the most coveted playing field, then it's fairly easy to predict players leaving when an opportunity to thrive someplace else comes up.

              The worst thing any manager ever said to me was "just be happy you have a job". That basically says "I have all the power and you have none". I've made it a point to move on to another job any time I've heard management at a company say that ever since.

                  johnnydoom That basically says "I have all the power and you have none". I've made it a point to move on to another job any time I've heard management at a company say that ever since.

                  Agreed.
                  And the opposite of that is gathering enough disgruntled employees together to voice their displeasure and request a change, in management, or they collectively take their skills elsewhere. This is the hard route but not impossible.

                    PA-PLAYA My beef with what these spoiled brats on the PGA tour are doing is that they’re showing little to no gratitude or appreciation whatsoever for the very organization that gave them everything they could ever want.

                    Where else would they go, if they wanted to be professional golfers? Now, there is a choice, right out of college/high school. They can play professional golf, make tons of money, and play in the U.S.. And yes, be famous for doing it.....for all the wrong reasons, it presently appears.

                    If these guys, like JT, say they got into it for the history, records, play on cup teams...and never mention money.....then they were spoiled with wealth long before hitting the Tour. And we know that is not true, so they are liars, one and all. Money talks. (see: recent pro Golfing news)
                    Would they all be doing it for teacher salaries???? Or service industry wages????

                        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10916471/amp/Rory-McIlroy-tells-Charl-Schwartzel-win-maiden-Saudi-backed-rebel-event-meant-NOTHING.html

                        "Rory McIlroy tells Charl Schwartzel his win in maiden Saudi-backed rebel event 'meant NOTHING' and blasts younger players for 'taking the easy way out' by joining mega-rich breakaway in golf's civil war.

                        McIlroy is particularly confused as to why the likes of Dechambeau and Reed would jump ship for a competition that means very little.

                        "He went on: 'I don't understand the guys that are a similar age to me going because I would like to believe that my best days are still ahead of me, and I think theirs are too,' he said. 'So that's where it feels like you're taking the easy way out.'

                        Johnson and DeChambeau both reneged on their pledge to stay with the PGA Tour and now have their Ryder Cup futures in jeopardy.

                        McIlroy was disappointed in the U-turns, saying: 'I guess I took a lot of players' statements at face value. I guess that's what I got wrong.

                        'You had people committed to the PGA Tour, and that's what the statements were that were put out. People went back on that.

                        'It's disappointing. The players that are staying on the PGA Tour feel slighted in some way. If those guys thought outside of themselves, they would see this is not the best for everyone."

                          I'm reading that Reed is getting $80 mil.

                            Par4QC Where else would they go, if they wanted to be professional golfers? Now, there is a choice, right out of college/high school.

                            They have a choice with the existing Tours. Also, think about it. The PGA Tour has a 'minor' league Tour in the Korn Ferry Tour and if they're good enough they can then play on the PGA Tour.

                            And if they find success on the PGA Tour they can then go to the Champions Tour once they turn 50.
                            What other sports league does that?

                            If you're good enough you can play professional golf for pretty good money on one of the three PGA Tours for the majority of your adult life. Not too shabby.

                                Sneakylong 😁The only 'protecting the field' in life is the family 'field'.

                                The guys bitching so much about these really good players jumping over, should be happy. It becomes easier for them to win now. At the same time, you will see fields with 'no names' winning, because Rory and the likes won't play certain places. And that will be even better.

                                I personally, like that these guys are going LIV. For the reason stated above. PGA, Rory, JT, and them, have got to shut up and let things go. It is to their benefit, along with the lesser players trying to hold on to their cards, or move up from other tours. 'Protect the field', fellas!!

                                    Par4QC have got to shut up and let things go

                                    They'll have to stop talking to the media and close their Twitter accounts. Additionally they could tell the media they will not address LIV questions.

                                      Par4QC

                                      I think for the parties involved it's best if the top players compete on the same Tour. And that's been the dilemma of the PGA Tour. How to get the best players to compete against each other more often.

                                      The PGA Tour has true competition. LIV does not. As I mentioned before as of now the LIV is just a glorified skins game and exhibition match.

                                      Now if most of the top players were to go to LIV then that would be the end of top level competitive Tour golf as we know it imo.

                                          Sneakylong What other sports league does that?

                                          Careful. What other sports league doesn't pay someone after a few days work? I'm not a Phil fan at the moment, but he has brought in the fans since before he was a pro and I'm pretty sure he missed a few cuts.

                                              KCee Careful. What other sports league doesn't pay someone after a few days work? I'm not a Phil fan at the moment, but he has brought in the fans since before he was a pro and I'm pretty sure he missed a few cuts.

                                              Apples tp Apples remember. lol It's an individual sport. Tennis would be an better analogy. Maybe the PGA could have billionaires bid and form teams in major cities and draft players and pay them huge contracts. 😏

                                              Don't think that would fly. So yeah, if you're good enough you can play professional tour level golf for your lifetime. In professional team sports if you're not good enough you get cut as well.

                                              Tom Brady is an outlier. 😎

                                                Sneakylong top players

                                                This is not the case, with those going to LIV. Top 'names' perhaps, but certainly not top players. They are still playing PGA Tour golf. I saw that last weekend. Big names, great golf!!

                                                Phil is 51. Reed....no one likes, and will only be missed as a scapegoat/amusement. Rickie? Who??? Bryson, cooked goose. DJ....well, it's DJ. Bubba.....hahaha!! Who were any others??????? 😉

                                                    sdandrea1 This thread has set the standard for the most civil political discourse ever......nice work, guys

                                                    I teed that up so Par4QC could chime in with "FUCK YOU!" 🤣