Sneakylong a country with human rights abuses
Throughout human history, no country/entity has had clean hands. It is a matter of degree &
historical time frame.
Super League Predictions
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Absolutely. Netflix is showing Who We Are: A History of Racism in America. Historically we’ve committed some of the worst human rights atrocities in history.
But hopefully countries progress and expand human rights like we have. Although we’ve slid back just recently and may slide further. Sometimes it’s two steps forward and then a step backwards.
Hopefully the Saudi’s will start to realize human rights and practice it.
Yup. No one has clean hands historically. And it’s a constant battle.
garyt1957
Not only am I not sure that it’s the WHOLE issue … I’m not even convinced it’s an issue at all. I keep getting told that “this is what they think”, or “this is what they are trying to do” … with little to no evidence. Why might it not be a logical business venture where the PGA is targeted as ripe for plucking? They made over 1.5 billion on their last publicly available tax return, and are virtually without real competition …and a portion (perhaps significant) of their members don’t believe they are being dealt a fair hand. Why wouldn’t someone, with the monetary means to do so, either want a part, or all, of that pie?
When SA invested in Boeing and Uber, were they accused of transportation washing?
Sneakylong An well know actor gets caught with a prostitute. His image goes in the toilet. He hires a public relations outfit to clean up his image. Does all kinds of good deeds to try and get peoples minds off his bad behavior. Does it work?
Not even close to the same thing. We like to forgive individuals. Multiple examples of celebrities doing drugs, prostitution etc that they come back from without doing any good deeds. Mike Tyson might be a rapist yet now he's loved. Robert Downey Jr was an addict, now he's Iron Man, etc.
Sneakylong And where the money comes from makes a difference for many. Would you work for someone knowing that the money they paid you came from drugs, human trafficking or any other illegal gain?
Another false flag. The Saudi money is not illegal gains, they're riches are perfectly legal and the US is one of their biggest customers.
And no, we'll never agree
Sneakylong Geopolitics is ugly ain’t it?
But back to whether people believe ridiculous things like ‘sportswashing’. Hypothetically speaking, a pathologically lying, failed businessman grifter / con artist, reality tv show host with no government experience runs for president.
Can he get elected? Is that harder to believe than a country with human rights abuses trying to cleanse their image with sports?
Which one is more ridiculous for people to fall for? Lol
Again, for the tenth time, show me ONE instance where it's worked.
Stu1961 I think you misunderstand what I meant by it's the whole issue. We're simply talking does sports washing work? Sneaky says the real issue with sportswashing is that the countries that do it think it's working and whether it works or not is a non issue. That's where I said it's the whole issue. Who cares if they think it works if it doesn't? Let them blow their money.
My comment had nothing to do with the PGA and LIV, it's about sportswashing in general.
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Could this be?
"Hideki Matsuyama is the latest PGA Tour professional linked with LIV Golf, as rumors suggest there is already a finalized contract for the 2021 Masters champion"
Maybe not big lossin USA for fans, but I believe he is known globally.
Of course a number of pros have been rumored to be jumping ship that arent or havent.
I’ll go out today and do a random survey and report back. 
Sneakylong - observation. You've used a straw man deflection when I've seen you point this out when others have used the same deflect in civil discourse discussions with you. Yes sir, geopolitics is ugly and often exposes each of us to hypocritical words and actions. I'm guilty.
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Here’s the best non straw man singular argument that I think makes the best case.
Again, having the ex PGA players themselves selling the propaganda of the Saudi’s.
The rhetoric of them saying that growing the game of golf including free golf for women etc. in order to try and soften the Saudi’s bad image on human rights atrocities is the very definition of sportswashing.
There’s no argument on their attempt to do this. The question seems to now be are they getting enough bang for their buck in doing this.
And the argument that it actually might be doing the opposite is a good thing if true.
The only other difference of opinion is some don’t care if bad actors sponsor sports on a large scale. Many are able to justify their opinion with whataboutisms as was mentioned in the article on whether the attempt on sportswashing may be doing just the opposite.
I think this has all been hashed to death with neither side changing any minds. Which leaves the only real question. Which is how the disruption of the Saudi’s deep dive into professional golf with LIV shake out in the end?
And it’s anyone’s guess how all this will turn out.
Sneakylong I’ll go out today and do a random survey and report back.
As big a hard on as you have for the issue, I'd think you'd have at least one on the tip of your tongue.
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We’re going to Chick-Fi-A for lunch. I’ll ask the person if getting sports stars to talk up a country with human rights atrocities while being paid outrageous sums helps soften their image. Lol
Assuming they know what the word atrocitiy means. But the more apropos question is would you watch a sporting event that was sponsored by a country with human rights atrocities regardless of propaganda.
Again, assuming they know what propaganda means. Lol
Sneakylong Again, having the ex PGA players themselves selling the propaganda of the Saudi’s.
The rhetoric of them saying that growing the game of golf including free golf for women etc. in order to try and soften the Saudi’s bad image on human rights atrocities is the very definition of sportswashing.
I have to admit, after the problems with all 'nationwide' media the past 2+ years, I do not watch much, only read blurbs on the internet when they might catch an eye.
So, I will ask if there is any recent, meaning let's say, in the past year or so, of proof of these atrocities still going on over there? Or any proof that things are, in fact, getting much better. Not heresay, not propaganda, from either side. Facts of change?
Sneakylong We’re going to Chick-Fi-A for lunch. I’ll ask the person if getting sports stars to talk up a country with human rights atrocities while being paid outrageous sums helps soften their image. Lol
Assuming they know what the word atrocitiy means.
Again, assuming they know what propaganda means. Lol
I notice you keep sidestepping the question. Let me answer it for you, no you can't or you would have answered it. That's why I think it's nothing to get upset about.