sdandrea1

Again, we must remember that not everyone has a working bullshit meter in their brain.😏 I could give you a perfect example, but would be chastised for being political. People are willingly fooled everyday.

Lincoln was right in that the problem with common sense is that it’s not all that common.😉

And the real issue with sportswashing is that it’s the countries that do it think it’s working. Whether it actually works is really a non issue.

Yes for the working bs meter crowd it’s a waste of money. It’s like a guy is a known wife beater. So he starts sponsoring women’s sports leagues in town to soften his image.

For most people they’d see it for what it is. For some though they’d fall for it and say he can’t be that bad a guy, look what he’s doing for women’s sports.🙄

Bottom line is PT Barnum was right.

      Stu1961 Finally some common sense regarding the sportswashing smokescreen.

      [https://www.fastcompany.com/90765385/liv-golf-saudi-arabia-sportswashing-backlash]

      Great article. How anyone thinks sports washing works is beyond me.

      A point I've made many times, seems beyond refute to me:
      But in the context of modern geopolitics, there’s actually not much evidence that this strategy works. “I don’t know who’s looking at China any differently now than they did six months ago, and there’s been an Olympics in between,” sports commentator and television host Bomani Jones told Freakonomics. “I don’t think there’s a single person in the United States who, between the 2008 Olympics and the 2022 Olympics, has changed their opinion of China based on what they’ve seen on television [Olympics coverage].”

        Sneakylong And the real issue with sportswashing is that it’s the countries that do it think it’s working. Whether it actually works is really a non issue.

        Whether it works or not is the WHOLE issue. Who cares what they think? If it doesn't work it doesn't work. If they want to make certain athletes mega rich by paying them I'm all for it. Let them blow their money AND they get nothing for it. That's actually a win/win.

        Sneakylong Yes for the working bs meter crowd it’s a waste of money.

        Anybody so stupid to fall for sports washing BS already has no clue that SA is a bad place They don't need convincing otherwise because they have no clue.

              Sneaky & Gary ....... It appears from all this 'sportswashing' etc. discussion here and elsewhere,
              that it may actually have the opposite effect - generating even more highly negative views. Ironic.
              I know that it has pushed me even more in that direction. YMMV

                garyt1957 Whether it works or not is the WHOLE issue. Who cares what they think? If it doesn't work it doesn't work. If they want to make certain athletes mega rich by paying them I'm all for it. Let them blow their money AND they get nothing for it. That's actually a win/win

                We're never going to agree on this. Let's try this. It's working for some of the ex PGA players. They're saying all kinds of flattering things about the Saudi's getting into golf and how it will grow the game and how they're letting women play golf for free to grow the game blah, blah, blah.

                And even if they're being disingenuous and just parroting what they think they need to say to justify taking the Saudi money, it's doing just what the Saudi's want. It's the effort to soften their image. And if it backfires more than helps that's great. But some are buying it I'm sure.

                An well know actor gets caught with a prostitute. His image goes in the toilet. He hires a public relations outfit to clean up his image. Does all kinds of good deeds to try and get peoples minds off his bad behavior. Does it work?

                For many they'll see thru it. For the gullible it will work.

                And where the money comes from makes a difference for many. Would you work for someone knowing that the money they paid you came from drugs, human trafficking or any other illegal gain?

                Some would and some wouldn't I'm sure. I guess we'd have to stand outside on the street and ask people how can countries with human rights issues change their image in the world? And have a list, with one being getting into sports on a large worldwide scale and letting women play golf for free.

                The letting women play golf for free may work better than sponsoring LIV. lol

                    Sneakylong how can countries with human rights issues change their image in the world?

                    Answer: You accept a meeting request from the POTUS that is already scheduled for later this month. If Biden has to stoop down and kiss the Prince's rings during introductions, I'll lose my shit.

                        mikeintopeka

                        Geopolitics is ugly ain’t it?

                        But back to whether people believe ridiculous things like ‘sportswashing’. Hypothetically speaking, a pathologically lying, failed businessman grifter / con artist, reality tv show host with no government experience runs for president.

                        Can he get elected? Is that harder to believe than a country with human rights abuses trying to cleanse their image with sports?

                        Which one is more ridiculous for people to fall for? Lol

                            Eguller

                            Absolutely. Netflix is showing Who We Are: A History of Racism in America. Historically we’ve committed some of the worst human rights atrocities in history.

                            But hopefully countries progress and expand human rights like we have. Although we’ve slid back just recently and may slide further. Sometimes it’s two steps forward and then a step backwards.

                            Hopefully the Saudi’s will start to realize human rights and practice it.

                            Yup. No one has clean hands historically. And it’s a constant battle.

                              garyt1957
                              Not only am I not sure that it’s the WHOLE issue … I’m not even convinced it’s an issue at all. I keep getting told that “this is what they think”, or “this is what they are trying to do” … with little to no evidence. Why might it not be a logical business venture where the PGA is targeted as ripe for plucking? They made over 1.5 billion on their last publicly available tax return, and are virtually without real competition …and a portion (perhaps significant) of their members don’t believe they are being dealt a fair hand. Why wouldn’t someone, with the monetary means to do so, either want a part, or all, of that pie?
                              When SA invested in Boeing and Uber, were they accused of transportation washing?

                                  Eguller I agree. Even the clueless are asking why are people so against LIV. And they're finding out.

                                    Sneakylong An well know actor gets caught with a prostitute. His image goes in the toilet. He hires a public relations outfit to clean up his image. Does all kinds of good deeds to try and get peoples minds off his bad behavior. Does it work?

                                    Not even close to the same thing. We like to forgive individuals. Multiple examples of celebrities doing drugs, prostitution etc that they come back from without doing any good deeds. Mike Tyson might be a rapist yet now he's loved. Robert Downey Jr was an addict, now he's Iron Man, etc.

                                    Sneakylong And where the money comes from makes a difference for many. Would you work for someone knowing that the money they paid you came from drugs, human trafficking or any other illegal gain?

                                    Another false flag. The Saudi money is not illegal gains, they're riches are perfectly legal and the US is one of their biggest customers.

                                    And no, we'll never agree

                                          Sneakylong Geopolitics is ugly ain’t it?

                                          But back to whether people believe ridiculous things like ‘sportswashing’. Hypothetically speaking, a pathologically lying, failed businessman grifter / con artist, reality tv show host with no government experience runs for president.

                                          Can he get elected? Is that harder to believe than a country with human rights abuses trying to cleanse their image with sports?

                                          Which one is more ridiculous for people to fall for? Lol

                                          Again, for the tenth time, show me ONE instance where it's worked.

                                              Stu1961 I think you misunderstand what I meant by it's the whole issue. We're simply talking does sports washing work? Sneaky says the real issue with sportswashing is that the countries that do it think it's working and whether it works or not is a non issue. That's where I said it's the whole issue. Who cares if they think it works if it doesn't? Let them blow their money.
                                              My comment had nothing to do with the PGA and LIV, it's about sportswashing in general.

                                                Could this be?

                                                "Hideki Matsuyama is the latest PGA Tour professional linked with LIV Golf, as rumors suggest there is already a finalized contract for the 2021 Masters champion"

                                                Maybe not big lossin USA for fans, but I believe he is known globally.

                                                Of course a number of pros have been rumored to be jumping ship that arent or havent.

                                                Sneakylong - observation. You've used a straw man deflection when I've seen you point this out when others have used the same deflect in civil discourse discussions with you. Yes sir, geopolitics is ugly and often exposes each of us to hypocritical words and actions. I'm guilty.