mikeintopeka that is when you get a few geezers to try out different stretches, exercises, and shafts to see what can be done about that... Get a few younger than geezers to do the same things and see what happens. There can be a lot that can be done. Shit, advertise to those who are 30's-40's, show them that there are things that they should be doing to keep them playing well. I'd read that shit. I'd like to know what I can do to help me play better, and avoid injuries, or recover faster.