USGA/R&A Distance Report

PA-PLAYA · 2020-02-07T05:53:34+00:00

Well... apparently the governing bodies have finally come to the conclusion that golf's changing distance climate does indeed exist. Without wasting enormo...

PA-PLAYA

sdandrea1

It would seem to me that the only real solution for the governing bodies is to regulate the equipment to stricter standards. Do they have the authority to tell the professional tours how they should go about setting up their courses to compensate for the modern technology available? That sounds unreasonable to me, assuming of course that they're not owners of any stake in the tour operations, and I don't think that's the case.

Regarding bifurcation... I think it's gonna take a complete 180 reversal of thinking for the US PGA Tour for the USGA to avoid an outright mutiny. I've read nothing thus far even remotely suggesting that Monahan is interested in rolling back equipment. And like I mentioned earlier, both he and the European Tour commissioner have to at least pretend to be proactive in quelling talk of that Premier Golf Tour talk. If they took a poll of the players ranked inside the top 100 in the world about rolling back the ball and equipment, I would have to guess that it would be lopsidedly rejected.

The tour players do have a committee, and that committee has a responsibility to represent the players. If push comes to shove, it wouldn't be out of the question that the tour wouldn't institute a local rule bypassing the USGA's directives. At the end of the day, the tour's financial interests matter more to them than the USGA's prerogative.
$.02

Weirfan

PA-PLAYA It would seem to me that the only real solution for the governing bodies is to regulate the equipment to stricter standards. Do they have the authority to tell the professional tours how they should go about setting up their courses to compensate for the modern technology available?

Which is why most people and smart folks like Jack are saying that a "tour only" ball is the easiest and best solution.

the narrowing of courses has only been raised as an alternative for those who are resistant to the aforementioned solution as such it gets incorporated into these debates. As you pointed out, logistics would be much more difficult. That said, courses and the PGA are very aware of the distance issue ....courses , like Augusta are spending money hand over foot to lengthen and keep their courses relevant to today's game and the PGA spends a great deal of time searching suitable venues and dictating requirements and conditions to be met for those courses to be appropriate settings to hold an event. For a major, it can take some courses 2 full years of prep to meet those demands and hence one reason why major venues are announced so far in advance

How hard would it be to produce a ball that doesn't fly as far? Every company should already have designs in the vault from 20 years ago. We are probably 5 years from this or any change so the debate will continue

bad9

Par4QC I would think they have more people in marketing than R&D. I recall when the Titleist IPO went out a few years ago they spent 3-4 times as much as marketing than R&D.

sdandrea1

I say again, we are all left to guess. Have they stated when they will propose a course of action or did they just waste a load of time and money to state the obvious?

Weirfan

sdandrea1

they are monitoring the situation 😉

Sneakylong

I'm with Phil on this. They haven't increased the height of a basketball rim etc.. If they do anything equipment related it would have to be bifurcated.

They can always make the golf courses harder for the Pros without doing anything to equipment, balls etc.. Just growing the rough would make a significant difference. The amateur needs all the help they can get.

They'd be stupid to make the game harder for the average hacker. But the USGA is so out of touch with the average golfer that nothing would surprise.

Weirfan

Sneakylong They'd be stupid to make the game harder for the average hacker. But the USGA is so out of touch with the average golfer that nothing would surprise.

Perhaps I have missed it , if so I would appreciate a link to where it was mentioned they were going to make changes that make the game harder for average golfers. Every Tour course is set up harder for pros now and then returned to what it was for members afterwards. The USGA cannot tell us hackers what we can and cannot use , thats why we have illegal ball, hi cor drivers, square grooves etc being played every day.

The reports don't express concern about how far Joe hacker hits the ball, this relates to PGA pros,
( maybe high end amateurs like NCAA) nobody else.

there is nothing wrong with bifurcation, it already exists in many sports, at different levels etc....like
The size of a soccer ball, height of a basketball net, Aluminum bats in College versus wood in Pro and so on.

Bifurcation in the rules already exists in golf, the most recent being the new lost ball/ob rule which is used by hackers but not in competition.

Sneakylong

Weirfan Perhaps I have missed it , if so I would appreciate a link to where it was mentioned they were going to make changes that affect average golfers.

No, I said if they did it wouldn't surprise me. I doubt they will.

Par4QC

Weirfan The USGA cannot tell us hackers what we can and cannot use , thats why we have illegal ball, hi cor drivers, square grooves etc being played every day.

Well, they can and do, obviously. When a person plays golf, they do tend to 'play by the rules', as far as they know them in some instances. When a tournament is played, the rules are the rules of golf. I've yet to play in a tournament where there is a different set of rules.

When I buy equipment, I'm always aware of what is 'legal', and tend to purchase only that type. I do own the newest (supposedly) illegal No Brainer head, but I did not buy it. I used it during 1 round, and found it to be a farce. I do not record rounds for handicap, but I still make sure I go on the up & up.

If I play a round, and happen to break Par, or have a HIO, how am I to brag about it if I did not use legal, certified equipment/balls? So, what the R&A/USGA set up as the rules, has very much an affect on me and my playing. I'm certain I'm no exception.

Weirfan

Sneakylong

what are you basing that opinion on ? Outside of normal performance limits to equipment that exist in every sport ( which we hackers don't have to abide by) what has the USGA and RA done to make the game harder for the weekend hacker ?

Sneakylong

Weirfan what are you basing that opinion on ? Outside of normal performance limits to equipment that exist in every sport ( which we hackers don't have to abide by) what has the USGA and RA done to make the game harder for the weekend hacker ?

We're talking past each other I believe. They've said that they won't do anything to hurt the average golfer. However, if they change the equipment / ball allowances for the Pro's it seems it could possibly trickle down to the amateur golfer.

How? Well, would it involve amateur tournaments etc.? Would they be restricted? And golfers like to buy what they see the Pros play.

Anyway, there's a chance the PGA wouldn't go along with any of the restrictions. So it might be a moot point. And the best argument Phil has is allowing an amateur organization to regulate them.

The USGA shouldn't worry about what less than 1 percent of the golfers in the world do.

Sarnella

Par4QC
Well - now that you put it that way....

Weirfan

Par4QC

All sports have rules....USGA rules are in place for sanctioned events ONLY. ( and should be used by the small percentage of those who carry a valid h/c)
In a game of road hockey or pick up baseball are all the rules and equipment standards abided by , NO...same for the the vast majority of golf games played. Less than 5% of all golfers carry a handicap through an association. 95% don't give a F about rules or what the USGA says about equipment

otherwise , Association rules are only a recommendation/guideline of how the game should be played and what equipment to use. Neither is requirement for hackers. Some do follow by choice , others make em up as they go along and mix in bastardizations of the rules .....but 99 % of the guys I play with ( outside competitions) play by their own rules.....most don't even know how to apply the rules properly.....16 clubs , who cares, illegal ball , tee, square grooves, who cares.

as above, the last major rule change for equipment was the square groove rule, not one person has come forward to say said that rule change impacted them negatively...( forced them to go buy different clubs etc) a change to a "tour only" ball will have the same effect on everyone here...that being ZERO

sdandrea1

I went back and read the summary. The next phase is the solution development. No mention of how long that will take and how it will be proposed and/or implemented. More waiting. I'll hoard more currently-legal balls and clubs so I can play "historical" golf when/if the USGA screws the pooch for everyone.

There's lots of guys playing hickory golf across the world. Maybe we'll start our own organizations of "illegal equipment " leagues!

PA-PLAYA

Perhaps Riviera will showcase this week how a well-designed shorter course can play a significant role in governing the distance issue. Over the past decade, the old gal has held her own. The average winning score is 12.5 strokes under par. Just a touch over 7300 yards.

Food for thought.

Martee

IMO, change the ball. Technology exists that would allow for a ball to have a transfer rate resembling a bell curve. Initially higher clubhead speed with good contact would provide the highest xfer efficency rate, up until a point that would then decrease xfer efficency rate thus limit the ball's distance.

This would only impact the elite players, but yet could prevent course from becoming obsolete. Limit designs that minimize side spin and a whole world of course come back into play.

Tinker

The problem is pro golf is an entertainment business. The circus wouldn’t do well if they greased the high wire so all the performers fell into the net. The trick is making the players pull of great shots, not driver wedge and not 90 yard hacks out of the weeds. The hardest part of golf is moving the ball and placing it in specific locations. The pro’s and equipment manufacturers have figured out how to overcome these obstacles, it’s in their best interest to sell gear and earn winnings. With continually lengthening the courses off the table what’s solution? If you want to sell 300 yard drives that’s fine but there has to be a risk for hitting it too short or too long.

Par4QC

Weirfan So, if I've understood all of your posts...…..

Last summer I was playing a round, alone. On 1 particular Par 3 hole, I hit my tee shot and pulled it slightly left, landing pin high, just off the green. I then teed another ball and hit almost the exact same shot, with the exception that it caught the left edge and rolled onto the green and proceeded to drop in the hole.

Hole in one!! Forgot to tell everyone here about it, I guess.

Except for the simple fact, as the rules of golf state, it was not a hole in one!
The rules, are the rules. Always.

fatshot

Weirfan
In my opinion, the Masters would be the logical entity to "take the bull by the horns" and make a rule saying all
competitors must play "The Masters ball." It's a privately run event, and they make up their own rules regularly. Just like there's an official NFL football, an official MLB baseball, and an NBA basketball, they could contract with a manufacturer to make a "Masters ball" with the distance standard dialed back. I think the pros would moan and groan a bit, but in the end they are so good that they would adapt quickly to the shorter distances and shoot scores that are nearly (but not quite) as low as they were before. Then, after a Masters or two, maybe other entities like the USGA, the PGA, maybe even the R & A might be "shamed" into adopting similar restrictions for a ball to be used in their major tournaments.

Meanwhile Titleist, Maxfli, Callaway, etc. could continue to manufacture their complete array of balls for guys like
us to use, making them as hot as they want. Very few amateurs would have the desire to play that tournament ball, since what the pros play is not going to effect our games one iota. Bifurcation?.....sure. But golfers like us aren't threatening to tear courses apart by hitting it overwhelming distances. We just want to hang on to what distance we've got! Just my .02 cents worth.....

Weirfan

Par4QC

congrats on the great 3. 😉

i agree that rules are the rules but you/we are by miles in the minority ....majority couldn't care less.

Even if the USGA changes the rules around the golf ball , I still don't think it will be applied universally to all golfers at all levels . That wouldn't prevent you or anyone else from using that ball though .

Weirfan

fatshot

agree 100%.

lets not forget that there used to be two different golf balls used, one endorsed by R and A the other USGA. The Brittish ball was slightly smaller and went further and was easier to work . Many US players made the switch to that ball when playing in the Open Championship. That ball was 0.06 inches smaller in diameter

changing the ball size to slightly larger would be very simple while still maintaining many of the balls current characteristics for feel etc. They might need to do more than just that , I'm not a ball expert
( NTTIAWWT)....

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