USGA/R&A Distance Report

PA-PLAYA · 2020-02-07T05:53:34+00:00

Well... apparently the governing bodies have finally come to the conclusion that golf's changing distance climate does indeed exist. Without wasting enormo...

Par4QC

Weirfan So, if I've understood all of your posts...…..

Last summer I was playing a round, alone. On 1 particular Par 3 hole, I hit my tee shot and pulled it slightly left, landing pin high, just off the green. I then teed another ball and hit almost the exact same shot, with the exception that it caught the left edge and rolled onto the green and proceeded to drop in the hole.

Hole in one!! Forgot to tell everyone here about it, I guess.

Except for the simple fact, as the rules of golf state, it was not a hole in one!
The rules, are the rules. Always.

Weirfan

Par4QC

congrats on the great 3. 😉

i agree that rules are the rules but you/we are by miles in the minority ....majority couldn't care less.

Even if the USGA changes the rules around the golf ball , I still don't think it will be applied universally to all golfers at all levels . That wouldn't prevent you or anyone else from using that ball though .

fatshot

Weirfan
In my opinion, the Masters would be the logical entity to "take the bull by the horns" and make a rule saying all
competitors must play "The Masters ball." It's a privately run event, and they make up their own rules regularly. Just like there's an official NFL football, an official MLB baseball, and an NBA basketball, they could contract with a manufacturer to make a "Masters ball" with the distance standard dialed back. I think the pros would moan and groan a bit, but in the end they are so good that they would adapt quickly to the shorter distances and shoot scores that are nearly (but not quite) as low as they were before. Then, after a Masters or two, maybe other entities like the USGA, the PGA, maybe even the R & A might be "shamed" into adopting similar restrictions for a ball to be used in their major tournaments.

Meanwhile Titleist, Maxfli, Callaway, etc. could continue to manufacture their complete array of balls for guys like
us to use, making them as hot as they want. Very few amateurs would have the desire to play that tournament ball, since what the pros play is not going to effect our games one iota. Bifurcation?.....sure. But golfers like us aren't threatening to tear courses apart by hitting it overwhelming distances. We just want to hang on to what distance we've got! Just my .02 cents worth.....

Weirfan

fatshot

agree 100%.

lets not forget that there used to be two different golf balls used, one endorsed by R and A the other USGA. The Brittish ball was slightly smaller and went further and was easier to work . Many US players made the switch to that ball when playing in the Open Championship. That ball was 0.06 inches smaller in diameter

changing the ball size to slightly larger would be very simple while still maintaining many of the balls current characteristics for feel etc. They might need to do more than just that , I'm not a ball expert
( NTTIAWWT)....

Par4QC

What would happen to a limited flight ball on 50 * days, vs. 90 * days?

Weirfan

Par4QC What would happen to a limited flight ball on 50 * days, vs. 90 * days?

Same thing as happens to the current ball., NO ?

ode

I think it will be short lived if the usga does impose some sort of governed ball rule. What about the lpga? US Open am/s? College (men and women)? Sr. Tour? etc etc. We could have multiple pro tours with different equipment expectations and guys like Steve Stricker or Phil, who will be 50 soon, playing one ball on one tour and another the PGA.

I would see the PGA tour going their own way before agreeing to a governed ball! I just don't see it happening. Bomb and gouge is here to stay and narrowing fairways, strategic bunkering, growing rough will only encourage more of the same IMO. I for one am fine with the way things are. You want to compete with the big boys, you best get in the gym!

Maybe the USGA could come up with a throw back/nostalgia league where drives can't go more than 300, where guys and gals are "working" the ball and shot making gets extra points. Sounds fantastic doesn't it, that will really grow the game🙄

Weirfan

ode

I am guessing, but suspect that a "tour only" ball would only be used on the PGA men's tours.

Seniors, Women , Amateurs are not averaging 300 yards so no need to use a different ball.
As for Stricker and Phil, they would use the ball allowed on that tour.
Jack and others easily adapted to a different ball when they played in the Open, certainly guys can adjust yardages to a reduced flight vs normal ball, they do now when playing in heat, wind, elevation.

I have not heard any push back from the PGA that would suggest they would splinter off. USGA makes changes all the time and I am sure the PGA is involved with consultation.
I would think the PGA is well aware of the distance issue as they are the ones who have to try and set up courses to meet the need of the players.

ode

Weirfan it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out, but I suspect not much will change!

DonM

Take the long view. There are already plenty of young men in every county who hit 300+ drives and 160-170 pitching wedges. What used to be extremely rare is now pretty common among better young players. Using the formula for determining appropriate tees, Driver x 27, those golfers should be playing 8100 yards. Extrapolate out 10 or 20 more years. How does your 6400 yard course play in 20 years for good golfers who average >300 off the tee?

Not to mention that people want to toughen the courses by making the greens more difficult. Yeah, like that makes the game faster or more enjoyable. Fifty years ago, greens were round things at the end of the fairway. At some point you got onto the green, whacked a putt or two, and moved on. Not much time taken to read the putt from all sides, stand astride the line and feel your feet, none of that. Just effing putt.

I can honestly see the appeal of hickory golf.

ode

DonM Driver x 27, those golfers should be playing 8100 yards.

I've always thought these "formulas" are crazy talk and this formula applied to the pro tour illustrates that. 8100 yard course, lol. Maybe scratch or low single digits "could" apply the "formula" but if everyone did courses would be coming to a screeching hault.

Too much temptation to use max yardage vs. an average and even then, IMO, it's still a poor way to pick a tee box!

Conservatively I'd be playing 7020y......NO

Tinker

The debate gets to what a pro can do compared to the recreational golfer and it’s really not debatable. I was reading a review on the Wilson Duo ball and one of the reviewers was saying he hits his Pro V1 260 and he couldn’t hit the Duo 200 yards. That makes no sense, but in his mind it’s true. I’d bet the ranch that Rory could hit an old Intech ball 330, i also believe a lot of us in this group could hit a 79 dollar aluminum Power Built driver as far as our hi cor ti driver of choice. The pro game had it right with the wound balata ball. The good pros could do whatever they wanted the ball to do and the recreational golfers could use their Top Flights. The solid core ball changed the game but it was way cheaper to produce and could still be marketed as a pro ball for a high price. The pro’s switched to it because they had no choice and the next generation figures out how to succeed with it.

Par4QC

ode Yeah, those formulas are a bunch of bullshit. No way will I get rid of all my drivers & woods, just to play a peewee course.

DonM

ode How about 36 x 5 iron distance?

ode

Par4QC lol

ode

DonM it's a little better.....caveat being are we talking traditional lofts? If we are talking jacked lofts then forget about it!
I hit a 7i ~ 170 +/-.......don't carry a 5i, but 6i ~ 180, so 5i would be in the high 180,s and low 190,s.......so we are talking 6700-7,000......it's just not realistic. I play what I'm comfortable with 6400-6700. My home course is 6400+ and plenty challenging. I could play the back tees at 6700+, but it's not necessary to test my game.

Par4QC

DonM Just stop it! By the time you guys get through with all of your 'formulas', I'm going to be playing 18, in my basement, taking full shots. Dammit.

DC300

DonM I'm not buying that one, I'm comfortable playing way longer than that and score the same anyway, I'm quite sure the pro's aren't going to have much issue with it either, except its right back to the course lengthening issues this way. For me, 205 is a 5 iron ( granted im not a really long iron player either in comparison to driver), so 7380, not that big of a deal to me. I cover 3600 of it with a driver (assuming 14 average drives), granted some will be off course because I suck, but for the tour guys, 70% of the time in the fairway and very few "foul balls" they will have a look at birdie or better about 85% of the time on a good day. I usually have a look at birdie about 50% of the time, thinking about my scoring, another discussion about lessons probably should be on the table.

sdandrea1

Here's a novel idea. DO NOTHING. So the winning scores will be lower. No golf courses will have to be lengthened. Swimmers are going faster, runners are going faster, javelins are being thrown further. Nobody is panicking about lengthening pools or making the mile longer. 😁 Maybe track athletes and swimmers can wear weights? Should baseball fields be lengthened? Just do nothing USGA. All pro golfers are subject to the same challenges. Let it be.

Par4QC

sdandrea1 making the mile longer.

ahem, Steve, they did that decades ago. Made it 1500 meters.

Luc_Van_Daele

sdandrea1 javelins are being thrown further

Good analogy, you can't change the size of a stadium so they did change the balance point of javelins to make them descend quicker when athletes started to throw them scarely close to the track risking to injure the track athletes running at the same time. World and olympic reccords were recalculated accordingly. Nobody watching sports on TV or live ever noticed.

So the obvious way forward is to change the way the ball flies, make pro golf balls that fly shorter or make pro's drop the ball instead off teeing it up. So if you still use a tee you suck at golf, but still can enjoy the game.

raggmann54

Par4QC 1500 meters is shorter than a mile...

sdandrea1

PA-PLAYA These increases have had a profound impact on costs to build, modify and operate golf courses ......and the R&A goes on to say something about courses becoming obsolete.

So it seems to be a forgone conclusion that the problem they're trying to solve is that pro players are hitting the ball so far, that they are able to use different clubs on their approach shots than their predecessors did. So fucking what? Why is this a significant problem? The equipment industry has spent gazillions trying to make clubs easier to hit (grow the game), and pro golfers have become athletes.....deal with it, USGA. The study shows distance data, but did they show scoring data? Have the average winning scores sunk below par in a linear relationship to distance increase? Why is it a forgone conclusion that courses HAVE to be lengthened or the game of golf is in peril? This assumption is what I think is wrong.

ZWExton

sdandrea1 This is a difficult position to refute, too. A PGA tournament is about scoring better than the other guys out there. They're all playing the same course with the same access to the same equipment. Whether the winning score is -3, -13, or -30, who cares? Beat the field, and you win.

-30 is kind of fun to watch, too.

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