A semi-random thought that's somewhat related to this subject: You can choose to play with either current-generation clubs and a wound-core golf ball (Titleist Professional or something similar), or early 1990s clubs (think along the lines of the early Big Bertha drivers, and either blades or Ping Eye 2/Zing/Titleist DCI for irons) with a modern ball - which do you think that you would score better with?

What the proposed ball rollback is effectively doing is going down the route of option 1, but only part of the way (I don't have exact numbers in front of me, but my understanding is that the shift from wound core balls to solid core led to distance increases of something like 10%). For what it's worth, I think that professional golf would be more interesting (and more able to identify the best players) if there were stricter limits on the equipment used at the top level, with the aim of reducing forgiveness - that's the second option above.

    MartinD A semi-random thought that's somewhat related to this subject: You can choose to play with either current-generation clubs and a wound-core golf ball (Titleist Professional or something similar), or early 1990s clubs (think along the lines of the early Big Bertha drivers, and either blades or Ping Eye 2/Zing/Titleist DCI for irons) with a modern ball - which do you think that you would score better with?

    I'd say the latter would be best for scoring, but a 460cc driver of today versus a 1990 driver is also a huge difference.

    Yeah, the bifurcation path might be interesting, but trying to sell stuff to the masses would be a mess. You can't have Tiger saying "you should buy TP6" and then watch Tiger play a Balata Tour 90.

      Sneakylong I think older players who are having a hard time even from the shortest tees should just tee ul their ball in the fairway somewhere and have at it. Go 20 yards in front of the red tees and play away. What are they gonna do? Kick you off the course?

          There were reposts of AGGC considering their own 'Masters Ball' . 🤔

          Par4QC as I previously stated

          ode Good God are they out of touch with reality in so much bigger way then I ever thought. Fucking clowns

          They should have been the ones to defect to LIV....and the Saudis could....I digress😬

              rsvman2 I think older players who are having a hard time even from the shortest tees should just tee ul their ball in the fairway somewhere and have at it. Go 20 yards in front of the red tees and play away. What are they gonna do? Kick you off the course?

              Yeah, I've suggested that. They have some ego left and won't do that. That's why my buddies 78 was so amazing. Had some epic up and downs from well off the green.

              Again, my point is there's way more golfers who need to hit it farther not shorter. They're proposing limits that affect a small percentage of golfers.

              I personally don't want to see any changes at any level of golf. However, if you must make changes make the Pro's use wooden drivers just like Major League Baseball doesn't allow metal bats.

              There was no effort to lengthen iconic Fenway Park. 😏 You can't legislate against athleticism.

              Bottom line is leave the masses alone. There is no problem with 99% of people that play recreational golf.

                  Sneakylong There is no problem with 99% of people that play recreational golf.

                  Like there is no problem with 99% of the golf courses; with most their layout has been unchanged since their inauguration. Since only the pro-game has changed, maybe it is time to move on and declare 6700 yard courses like St-Andrews Old Course obsolete for pro play and construct a 7500-8000 yard championship course next to it.

                      rsvman2 some courses do have junior tees and that is essentially where they are set in the fairway. I e played two courses that do that and several others that have a metal marker in the ground.

                        Luc_Van_Daele Like there is no problem with 99% of the golf courses; with most their layout has been unchanged since their inauguration. Since only the pro-game has changed, maybe it is time to move on and declare 6700 yard courses like St-Andrews Old Course obsolete for pro play and construct a 7500-8000 yard championship course next to it.

                        The Old Course was over 7,300 yards for the Open Championship last year (going by this Golf.com article) - it just played much shorter because of the conditions (one of the driest summers that I can remember...) That is quite a bit longer than in previous years - just over 7,100 yards in 2000, and 6,900-odd yards in 1995.

                        One problem with the male professional game as it is at the moment is that the players aren't being challenged in the same way as their predecessors - you simply aren't going to see shots like Tom Watson's 2-iron into the 18th green at Birkdale in 1983, or Christy O'Connor's 2-iron approach into the 18th at the Belfry in the 1989 Ryder Cup because even the average player is hitting at most a mid-iron into even the longest par 4 holes under almost any conditions. To restore the shot values seen in the 1980s (i.e. long iron approaches into par 4 holes, true 3-shot par 5s), courses would need to be getting up towards 8,500 yards, with par 4s well over 500 yards, and par 5s pushing towards 700.

                          After a lot of thought, and a good night's sleep, I've made my decision on this subject.

                          Henceforth, I shall no longer be concerned with my balls. At age 71, almost 72, I don't see the need. They have already been restricted for many years now, esp. the last couple. 😲

                            Sneakylong There was no effort to lengthen iconic Fenway Park. 😏 You can't legislate against athleticism.

                            Or maybe you can legislate against athleticism.
                            All baseballs are manufactured by Rawlings. All meet the same specifications and must meet a COR range of 0.530-0.570.
                            MLB does regular testing, and also trends the number of home runs and distances.
                            MLB dialed back the ball last in 2021 as homers were up, and testing determined that Rawlings was getting most balls near the 0.570 Core limit.

                            The masses could do it now. There are non-conforming balls. Hi COR clubs have tried and failed to gain market share. The masses will play whatever the Pros play, and what the Pros tell them to play in 30 second segments on the TV.

                                Luc_Van_Daele Like there is no problem with 99% of the golf courses

                                That is just not true. As recreational golfers, we don't see the problem, because we aren't the problem.

                                Most courses host competitions using USGA regulations. And currently, junior golfers are growing up thinking they need 300-350 yard drives to be competitive. The competition golfer will continue to push courses longer and longer unless limits are dialed back.

                                    Sparky The competition golfer will continue to push courses longer and longer

                                    That all depends on the mindset of the course owners. If they all start saying 'no more', it's a done deal. Play on!

                                    Competitions are not about scores, as we may be concerned about as bad amateurs, it is about winning/placing/money. Scores be damned. They mean nothing at banks or on trophies.
                                    jmo, but the powers that be, just do not get that.

                                        MartinD if there were stricter limits on the equipment used at the top level, with the aim of reducing forgiveness - that's the second option above.

                                        But again, those restrictions are going to be paced on everyone. OEMs are not going to want to be making a lot of different clubs. And any competitions will always use 'the rules'. Best that everyone 'suffers'.
                                        We will just have to get used to no more pancake driver heads. And maybe knocking off another inch of length of them.
                                        And better learn how to hit centerface!!😉

                                        I really think they will do something with the FW clubs, maybe more so than drivers. Those 300 yd. hits off the deck are getting a bit ridiculous, esp. when some of the gals are approaching that length now.

                                          Sparky

                                          Yes, you're correct. I misspoke. You can legislate against athleticism and that's what they're trying to do. Athletes are getting bigger and stronger. That won't change. For me it's an exercise in futility.

                                          The USGA was for bifurcation and now they're not. Restrict all you want for competitive golf, but don't punish the recreational golfer.

                                            Par4QC Competitions are not about scores, as we may be concerned about as bad amateurs, it is about winning/placing/money. Scores be damned. They mean nothing at banks or on trophies.
                                            jmo, but the powers that be, just do not get that.

                                            Bingo.......... If there never was a thing called par there wouldn't be this call to restrict things. They will never do it, but get rid of par. Just add up the strokes and the fewest strokes win.

                                            Forget about how many under par the winning score is. Just announce it like The Open does. With a score of 270 and the winner of the Gold medal and the Champion golfer of the year is.......................

                                            The USGA and R&A are concerned about embarrassing legacy courses. It's stupid. So what if golfers are getting bigger and stronger. The winning score no matter what it is wins.

                                            When I was in high school (early 70's) they banned dunking in basketball (from 1967 to 1976). That was dumbass as well. But again, the USGA can do whatever they want and if the Tours go along with it I really don't care.

                                            But leave the recreational golfer out of it. Allow bifurcation.