• The Clubhouse

  • In your opinion, which kind of people will never be a decent golfer ?

MidwayJ I have trouble figuring out how changes are supposed to feel.

Changes in golf will feel stange and uncomfortable ( mentally ) for a period of time to adjust.

I used the interlocking grip when I was younger, and changed to overlapping in my late 30's. That simple change took me over a season to accept and over several years to be comfortable with it.
My swing plane is somewhat flat, so the interlocking grip hurt my fingers when I swing out of my shoes. I'd imagine a more upright swing plane would suffer less. Also my hero Ben Hogan answered when asked why he used the overlapping grip grip by " it does not hurt my fingers ". It took me quite awhile to adjust to a 47" driver from a 45 1/2" back then, when. Every change will take awhile to get used to, nothing over night success for my game. I remembered taking the newly changed overlapping grip to the golf course, when I had the urge to changed it back to the old comfort interlocking grip. And did changed it back several times before finally settled to the new overlapping grip. Never looked back since then and would feel funny when using the interlocking grip now.

As I aged, a funny phenomenon happened. I could swing all flex of shafts in drivers and irons ( for some reason not so well with fairway woods ), from my wife's F flex to my friend's A flex, R flex to my S flex and the few X flex from yester years. Only lose a few yards in the mid to long irons and the rest of the set would achieve similar distance except for the F/A flex driver would probably lose close to 20 yards comparing to the other flex.

The lesson for me is, nothing come quickly with my game of golf. Need to put in the effort ( sweat and $ ) to achieve the goal. Although I did see a few cases of extra ordinary improvement in golfers . One golfer I know broke 80 in his first year of picking up the game, although he played 2-3 times a week , he had busted the 3-4 years normal barrier for the average golfer to break the 80. Equipment are better these days, perhaps that helped in his case. Trying to break the 80 with butter knife blades and persimmon woods should be a little more difficult.

      Release
      Well, that's probably why I have never been a good golfer. Or decent. ☺ Fortunately I play with other guys who are about the same as me. What frustrates me is inconsistency. I can suddenly start hitting the ball like a complete beginner and I am then left to figure out what is wrong.

          Bankshot
          A 14 handicap would shoot a little higher than that on average, given how it's calculated. Even so, 14.3 is the average handicap among those who actually keep an official USGA handicap. So if you include ALL golfers, you would expect the average score to be higher.

              Bankshot
              Hard to believe better or worse?

              Even with an average score of 92 I'm a better player than more than half of the people I get paired with on public courses. Many that "score" lower than I do pad their score with numerous mulligans, gimme putts, and improved lies. I presume players at private clubs are better players since they probably play at least once a week, but on the public courses in the areas I've lived in, players that shoot a legitimate 85 or better must be in the top 20%.

                  MidwayJ

                  Two thumbs up !

                  Golf should be enjoyed at any level of ability. It's not a beauty contest, although everyone want to be the prima donna ( even secretly ).

                  Like I said, my goal back in the days was to get a birdie on every hole ( before I hit the tee shots ).

                    My game developed in two stages really. I spent the first half of my golf experience learning how to hit the ball somewhat consistently, but spent a majority of my time working on my short game and putting. The second half of my experience was less about figuring out how to hit the ball, and more about learning how to score.

                    I realized early on that I lacked the raw talent and power to make a ton of birdies. That's not to say that I couldn't tap into a nice stream of unconscious playing and score on the odd occasion. One of my more memorable rounds came about 6 years ago, at a course that really suited my game. I started the round with 3 consecutive bogeys, and really struggled to get anything going. But I didn't press and stayed patient, and went birdie, birdie, birdie, birdie, eagle on the closing 5 holes. Now granted - I only ended up shooting level par that day, but it underscored the value of not giving up on the round and continuing to grind.

                    If my putter is on, I can expect 3-4 birdies per round. I'm generally average 12-13 greens per round, maybe 14-15 greens on a really good day. Putting has always been the make-or-break club for me. If I'm driving the ball halfway decent and putting okay, everything else tends to take care of itself. The good score at the end of those rounds just more or less come down to avoiding the blowup holes.

                    During all these years of playing, I've learned something very important as it relates to my own personal game: if I don't worry about how I think others perceive my golf game, and don't get caught up in trying to swing the club perfectly, or fall into the pitfall of getting in a long-drive contest with those I play with - my game holds its' own. But when I'm not thinking about the target and focusing more on how my swing looks than it feels - it's gonna be a forgettable round.

                    It's easy to shoot a respectable round when you're swinging well. But shooting a respectable score when you're not hitting it pure, having to manufacture certain recovery shots to keep par in the equation - those days are actually more gratifying to me. It indicates that I didn't give up.

                    Every good player is always grinding. It doesn't mean they're not making mistakes or making bogeys, but they've refused to relent to desperation and thrown away everything that got them to that level to begin with.

                    MidwayJ ok, that makes more sense. I've always been under the impression that the average player doesn't break 100. As you point out, mostly better players keep a usga cap.

                        Bankshot

                        I think the USGA maintains that a player who enters his scores accurately and accordingly, playing by the rules of course, will either play to his handicap or maybe better than his handicap on-average 30-40% of the time. In my 20 years of competitive golf, I believe this to be fairly accurate, at least as it pertains to me. So basically the handicap overall doesn't represent the level one should always play to, but rather the player's true potential.

                        Where the problems occur is when a player manipulates his handicap. You have the traditional sandbagger, who sports a 10 handicap but only because he doesn't post his really good scores. Each year, about a month or so before the member/member or member/guest tournaments roll around at my club, there are a couple of guys who don't necessarily mind shooting 5-6 strokes higher than their norm in the friendly matches, because they're wanting their handicaps to inflate a few points for the upcoming tournaments. Then we have one guy who just refuses to post his really good rounds. In fact - he was warned about this a year ago, and got caught doing it again just a few weeks ago. He shot 75 that day, then went inside and posted his score for an 82. It was brought to the head pro's attention, he investigated his scoring history in the handicap computer, caught him redhanded. He was informed that afternoon that his handicap would be adjusted 2 strokes lower, and if it happened again - he would be banned from competing in club-sanctioned events altogether. But for whatever reason, and despite all of the members knowing his history of gaming the system (cheating, really) - they still allow him to play in their weekday morning money games.

                        Then you have the lesser of the two evils - the vanity cappers - who either enter lower scores than what they really shot or only post their good rounds. For the most part I don't mind vanity cappers, because I know I really don't have to worry too much about those guys when I'm playing against them in tournaments, because obviously they can't play to their handicaps anyway. But where this can and sometimes does become a problem is when you have one of those guys in your regular group, and you play a team event and suddenly he's your partner. You know ahead of time that it's all on you... you're not getting any help from him whatsoever. And it's not really about the money, we don't wager big bucks. Most of the time the most a player will lose is 8-10 bucks. But the competitive aspect of enjoying a fair match and competing to win - that's more important than the money really.

                        I had a situation like this last season. I was managing a group of roughly 12 guys, and two of the guys hardly ever played to their handicap. We're talking maybe one time in 15 rounds they would play to their handicap, and the rest of the time they were 6-8 shots higher than their handicap. Well, that 30-40% of the time the USGA talks about applies to them too, and like I said - it's fairly accurate. So I knew something was going on. And they're nice guys, but their egos just won't allow their handicaps to exceed a certain range, as if they somehow get their rocks off telling their buddies at work that they're 12 handicaps, when really they can't break 90 most rounds.

                        Anyway... when I would do the pairings for the teams each weekend, whoever I paired those two guys with - they were pretty much assured that they weren't gonna win, because obviously they couldn't play to their handicaps, and it's two-man teams.

                        Now we're all friends, none of us are really as good as we think we are. I can just as easily shoot 84 some days as I can 75 other days, and we're all like that to some degree. But these two guys were, for all intents and purposes, noncompetitive in our group. And they were noncompetitive because they weren't posting accurate scores, or posting only their better rounds. I know this because I did my own little investigation of both of their handicap histories on the handicap computer, and right away I knew what was going on.

                        But being the group leader, I was left with no other choice but to confront them about it. And that wasn't easy, because I knew they were gonna take it personally. And sure enough - both of them took it personally. And it was at that point that I had to think about the other 10 guys in my group. Sorry, fellas. If you can't play by the rules - you can't play with us.

                        After doing the group leader things for two seasons, I finally called it quits after last year. It was beginning to be too much work, too many personality conflicts, too many issues. I found three other guys to play with this season and I must say that it has been much less stressful and much more enjoyable.

                            PA-PLAYA

                            Yeap, being a team leader or managing a group of golfers is a chore !

                            It's a headache no one wish to take on. even a shared responsibility will be a lot of work. I quite playing with 2 groups over the years because of what you had mentioned. I don't even enjoy playing with them socially. Rather play with total strangers so I won't know if they sandbag or boast their ability.

                              I can honestly say that after playing golf for 45+ years....95% of the time I have played.......USGA rules went out the window with the players I have played with. Mainly, casual golfers but still..............all the time it seems. And I am pretty good knowing the rules. Even tourneys I have entered......lots of cheating going on. Mostly as they didn't know the rules...but still, it's cheating. Behind you...in front of you..........cheaters...know the rules or don't know the rules. And USGA handicap be Damned. Quite a few fudge one way or the other. That posted USGA index creates EGO's in some..in others, they gamble on the course and want to be higher than they actually are. Calcuttas play a big part in that....and some clubs are known as gambling clubs where a higher index can reward golf hustlers with $ millions every year.

                                Bangoman

                                That's why I'm somewhat selective about who I play with. We'll concede putts that are meaningless in a team event (like if his teammate is already in with par and he has a 2-footer for par) or if it's within a foot. Which is generally expected in matchplay format.

                                We learned a long time ago that (in our group) we either play by the rules or we don't play. It prevents petty arguments and saves a lot of grief and frustration. How others play their matches really doesn't concern me. To each their own.

                                I just know that when tournaments come around - I've got a legit handicap and a pretty good handle on the most routine rules that come into play. There are some that can be a bit more complicated, but for the most part we really don't run into too many problems with guys cheating. They know it's not tolerated, and it's a reputation no one wants.

                                  Bangoman

                                  You have the insight there.

                                  Golf or any other sports, plenty of rule breakers with money or even just a trophy involved.
                                  I used to belong to a casual golf club, where members will cheat to get a small trophy awarded out each month.
                                  I was amused by their action and commented one time " if so and so needs a trophy so badly, I'll donate $50 to buy him one ". We used to put in $20 per tournament to fund the longest drive, KP, low gross and low net besides the individual or team bet. I quite that group since I could not stand the accepted practice of ignoring the rules and not playing fairly by some of the members. I decided not to donate my $20 to someone whom had much more than I .

                                  Strangely, most of these guys were retired and have multiple 7 figures in net asset. I scratched my head for not understanding why a guy with several millions in the bank wants to cheat for $100 price or a $50 trophy.

                                  I used to be active in Skeet and trap competition, and boy, talk about sandbaggers. There must be a sandbagger in every other shooter.
                                  Can't understand it. maybe they believe cheating was the only way they could have gotten ahead of the others.

                                    4 days later
                                    5 days later

                                    I firmly believe that really bad golfers, like realjy awful terrible golfers with little to no athletic competence will never be decent players. But it's just a gut feeling.............I have no statistical evidence. 😃

                                      Distance is the King, although the short game is the scoring part of the game .

                                      If one could not advance the golf ball properly and never had a chance to get on the greens in regulation then, a below par score might be impossible to obtain. Some tour player said once, he'd rather be 120 yard away in the rough than 170 yards away in the fairway. I believe it was Vijay Singh whom said that .

                                      Short game could be practiced , long game is either you have it or you don't.

                                      Golf is all about managing expectations.

                                      Very few golfers play by the rules as it has been pointed out previously. The guys I play with would fall into the pretty strict category. We move the ball if there is a rock or root underneath. No Sense in hurting yourself or damaging your club when it is just some hacks out competing.