• The Clubhouse

  • In your opinion, which kind of people will never be a decent golfer ?

johnnydoom

I had known quite a few case of intelligent persons over analyzing the golf swing in minute details but not able to execute the knowledge they had found. They would be great golf club designers or even instructors but they could not play well enough or let loose to enjoy the game.
I had met a guy whom will ask all kinds of questions and decipher all the information from instructors , magazines and the golf channel, internet sources. When he stood over a golf ball, he would freeze for 5-10 seconds , like he was going through millions of thoughts before he trigger the take away. He had but one game lower than 80 in his entire golf life of almost 20 years. He enjoys being with friends however, I know he really want to be closer to low teen in the handicap index, he got frustrated when he shot over triple digit on difficult golf courses.......

So many examples of Professionals whom made it to the top of the PGA ladder of merit . They changed their swing because of seeking a "perfect golf swing" or because of injury. That basically ended their golf career.

Golf is a game when one acquired the basic tools of understanding the human body in relationship to propel a golf ball, just sharpen the tools and focus on scoring.
No other secrets and one does not need to understand the golf swing like building space ship and calculating the trip to Mars. KISS, keep it simple stupid with determination to reach the desired result.

That's what they meant by finding the game between the ears with better golfer. Like breaking the 3 minute mile , mostly is mental strength instead of physical ability. I had seen a small youth. 5.7" 140 lb. hit 290 yards drive and 165-170 with 7 iron.

I'll star the second observation, those whom could not change their "comfort way" of swinging the golf club will not enjoy the game as much as they could have been. Seen quite a few whom took lessons and eventually either not patient enough or not practice the new grip or new ........ they revert back to the old way of swinging the golf club. Because they felt comfortable with the old way ( not the best way ). One can groove a bad golf swing to "own the swing" , these golfers did not have the patience to change to the better nor time to groove their own golf swing.

I had seen some golfer with success on the driving range from taking a golf lesson, the next week they had already back to using their original golf swing.

    Release I will start from experience that an analytical person will not be enjoying the game of golf as he or she could be.

    As one of those analytical types, I have to agree wholeheartedly. I can go through a dozen different swings thoughts during a poor round, trying to find a groove. It's absolute torture.

        rangerx

        I had this one guy whom was very intelligent and for the life of his, he could not get rid of the hundreds of swing thoughts he had gathered from all sources when he stood over the golf ball. He will have a bad contact then turned around asking me questions and what did I see in his swing........ many, many questions and answers later , I realized his problem is not with understanding the golf swing but the execution of the golf swing.

        Granted, not everyone could swing like a professional, most of us never will be. But there is a way to make this guy enjoy his golfing a lot more.

        I finally told him to focus on just a several swing thought when before and during addressing the gold ball.
        Which are - alignment ( target line and most importantly the club face to the target line and the ball position ). -check his grip ( he had a way too strong a grip on the golf club which inhibit him from a full release at follow through) then - at the top try not to be stretching to achieve the parallel ( he stretch too hard and tighten up his upper body with tight shoulders, tensed arms which did the reverse of the goal of winding up, which made his coming down inconsistent at the golf ball ).
        He could not remember this in a simple way before he grooved the routine, so I got him to think of this from the ground up. alignment the club ( soling correctly with irons ) , check grip and not to stretch too much at the top.
        Simple enough to just look at the club face , check his grip and not to over stretch at the top.

        He still ask me questions after all this and could not pull the trigger ( standing over the golf ball from 5-13 seconds looking at the golf ball - frozen ). So we got him to trust himself after checking the alignment , the grip, and just swing away. We told him ALL THE WORK HAD BEEN DONE WITH THE ALIGNMENT AND THE GRIP, no more thoughts but to go after the golf ball with a full follow through.

        He was very happy after that, and we told him he had it in him before, just not bringing the potential out as he could /should.
        Since then, I had correct his grip many times in the first year, each time I see him, somehow he'd slip back to the old way too strong a golf grip. He said he was not confident to keep the new grip on the golf course, yet so he went back to the comfort grip he had been using for decade.
        We had to convince him the feel for a change is not going to feel comfortable until he had a chance to groove it into his comfort zone. As he is not injuring himself and seeing good results, he should keep at it .

          If you don't understand the basic fundamentals of the swing and you don't develop a decent repeating swing...you'll never be good. You MUST put in range time (which includes putting/short game). In other words, if you can't put in the time.........your game will be a crime.

          Range time....Range time.....Range time......If you don't practice how do you expect to get good?

            I started playing in my early 20's, self-taught for the most part. I've taken a few lessons over the years but nothing regular. I was fitted for clubs one time. It was indoors, on mats, using a simulator with very basic information. It ended up being a wasted investment. After two weeks of hitting worm-burners and fatties, I sold the fitted clubs for half of what I paid, went back to what I had, and have been an "off-the-shelf" guy ever since.

            I'm sure that a proper fitting can make a tremendous difference for some players. But it just really never panned out that well for me, and quite frankly I've never regretted not becoming obsessed with spin rates and launch angles.

            All of that said... nothing prepares a golfer for that one day that comes when he realizes that he can't deliver the club head speed like he used to, or that period in his golf life when he no longer has the luxury of going straight from the parking lot straight to the first tee. Nope, can't do that anymore. Too old and fat, I gotta get loose just so I don't hurt myself. I used to hit a PW 140 yards, easily. Now that's an 8-iron, provided it's a calm day.
            Getting old is an absolute bitch.

            Yet, at the same time, my best golf has occurred in my 40's. I can't honestly pinpoint why. Maybe part of it is knowing that I can't hit the ball like I used to, and to make up that difference - I've been forced to manage my game better, manage the course better. I'm sure that the advances in equipment and game-improvement technology has also helped soften the blow a bit.

            The course one regularly plays also factors into the overall picture. I've been a private club member for the past decade or so, two different private clubs. And both of them have earned reputations as being two of the more difficult layouts in the area. My current club is undoubtedly the toughest course I've ever played, at least on a regular basis. The opening 9 is the shorter of the two 9's, but also much tighter. Lots of trouble lurking not far off the fairway. The back 9 is more open, but the greens are somewhat tougher and it's longer. After playing here for 3 seasons now, I can go to just about any other course in the area and play pretty well. For the most part, playing tougher courses has helped me establish a handicap that I can more easily play to when I'm playing elsewhere.

            But I'm a lot different today than I was 20 years ago. I no longer get stressed out when I play crappy golf, although I still get frustrated like everyone else. Just not enough to cause me to invest 2 hours on a driving range to figure out what I'm doing wrong. That used to be me... I would shoot 75 and feel like I played horrible golf, like I had no other choice but to go bang 100 balls afterward and figure out how I could possibly hit the ball higher and straighter.

            These days I'm more or less in a state of maintenance... I just take what I can get. I still practice, but it's casual practice. I'm not working on hitting certain shots or spending an inordinate amount of time working on a weakness. I might hit 30-40 balls, hit a few balls out of the sand, hit a few chips and pitches. That's about the extent of it. I'm just at a stage in my life where I'm pretty happy to maintain the level I'm at, without a huge time investment.

            But I also realize that I can't expect to be consistently better if I don't invest more time. Everyone has to figure out what they're wanting out of their golf experience, and then figure out how to get there and maintain it.

              Bangoman

              I totally agree.
              Range time or "find it in the dirt" quoting Hogan.

              It's not the broadly acceptable practice for today. Most want to buy a miracle stick that can hit it long and straight right out of the wrap. Hop on a golf cart zip to the golf ball , hop off then hit it, hop back in the cart and zip to the next location. While in between a cold beer or margarita or two, or three. And cheating ( intentionally or not ) is widely acceptable.

              No hard work is needed or wanted. We all want the easy way out. One of my kid is taking Summer classes to fill in the gap which regular curriculum does not adequately cover for a 4 year college program ( believe it or not it works out to take almost 5 years to get a degree according to the curriculum set from college like they love to have you there longer than 4 years ), during the first week of classes, many had dropped out of the Physics-Mechanics , actually 1/3 of the class dropped out within the first week of start because it'll require work to get a good grade.

              My kid was happy because they could actually learn something which was of interest.

              Same with golf, the golfers expect to pick up the golf club and hit it like what they been seeing on the golf channel.

                PA-PLAYA

                Yeah, getting aged certainly will not pan out like aged wine. LOL !
                I used to hit 500 to over a thousand range balls during raining days. Stood on every tee box thinking "birdie"- before the tee shot for sure. NO longer wasting my energy on the driving range unless request to watch someone else's swing for them.

                I used to play the persimmon driver and hit it longer than my 460 cc adjustable titanium driver with 2-3" longer shaft.............. Getting old is a biotch.

                A birdie now and then would not excite me too much but nice to have. No longer play from the tip of the golf courses, nothing over 6700 yards now. I still walk the golf course, and will still do it until one day I'm not able to.
                I started using a push cart since about 7 years ago after my shoulder injury and might up-grade to a power push cart one day.

                    Release

                    I've not walked a course in a few years now, thanks to plantar fasciitis. If it weren't for a motorized cart - I'd have to quit I'm afraid. Even as it is with a cart - I can no longer play back-to-back days, especially if we've had heavy rain overnight and it's cart-path only. That said - I'm hoping to play both Friday and Saturday (tournament on Friday). I'll suffer through it if it's a 2-day tourney or something of that nature, but other than that I can't go consecutive days.

                    And that really sucks. I've been dealing with this for going on 20 years now, had surgery 5 years ago to release the tendon a bit in hopes that it would alleviate some of the inflammation. To no avail. Orthotics didn't help, shock therapy, stretching... I've tried everything. I guess this is just the one plague in my life I have to live with. Oh well, it is what it is. I can still golf, but have to ride. But I do miss walking. That was the best.

                    Anyway.... you might look at BatCaddy. I bought one and used it for a few years back when I could walk. Battery operated, remote control. It was nice. It was so nice walking down the fairways without having to push or pull a trolly. They're not cheap, but if you enjoy walking - it's a nice investment.

                    I'll be forced to play the tips at my club next month in our club championship qualifier, 36-holes of stroke play. Although it measures 7000 yards, the pro usually brings some of the back tees forward to the next box so it isn't so relentless. Otherwise some of the forced carries would be in the 240-250 range, and all of the par5's but one would measure over 625 yards. But even with the adjusted setup, we're still looking at about 6800 yards. Two of the par3's measure over 230 yards from the tips. I've no doubt that I'll be trying to feather a driver on them if the pins are back.

                    I'll put it to you this way - I've played Bethpage Black on 4 occasions. I know the course pretty well, played from the same championship tees as the pros played in the first US Open there. In fact - I shot 80 there the last time I played, and that was with a triple bogey on the par3 17th and a bogey on the finishing hole. Of course - the rough wasn't 6 inches and the greens weren't stimped at 14, but still...

                    I think my course is tougher than the Black from the back tees. 😉

                    But thank God the club championship (two weeks later) is matchplay from the member's tees (6500 yds)!

                        PA-PLAYA

                        The wife of one of my friend has always been plaque by mysterious illness, including pain in the joints and other strange suffering. All the specialists she had seen over the years had different opinion of what happened to her.
                        A few accused her of faking her illness, a few referred her out to other specialists...... health insurance company formed a special team to meet with her every week to discuss her case. All in vain to determine the cause fo her illness.
                        Last month she was diagnosed with plantar fasciitis and was scheduled to have surgery to relieve the pain.
                        With the outlook of a long recovery after the surgery, the family seek second medical opinion. I referred them to a foot surgeon we trust and whom my neighbor swore by . The verdict was that the symptom of plantar fasciitis was caused by rheumatoid arthritis. They cancelled the surgery for plantar fasciitis.

                        Many of the M.D. treat the symptoms of illness. With the insurance practice , not many will have the extra time nor the energy for good medical care.

                          Decent is a very relative term. The average handicap is something like 14.3. I would consider anything better than that decent. Those of you who shoot par probably have a much higher standard. 😊

                          I developed a pretty lousy swing as a teen and I have had mixed success trying to fix it over many years. I have been too stubborn to take lessons. I have trouble figuring out how changes are supposed to feel.

                            MidwayJ I have trouble figuring out how changes are supposed to feel.

                            Changes in golf will feel stange and uncomfortable ( mentally ) for a period of time to adjust.

                            I used the interlocking grip when I was younger, and changed to overlapping in my late 30's. That simple change took me over a season to accept and over several years to be comfortable with it.
                            My swing plane is somewhat flat, so the interlocking grip hurt my fingers when I swing out of my shoes. I'd imagine a more upright swing plane would suffer less. Also my hero Ben Hogan answered when asked why he used the overlapping grip grip by " it does not hurt my fingers ". It took me quite awhile to adjust to a 47" driver from a 45 1/2" back then, when. Every change will take awhile to get used to, nothing over night success for my game. I remembered taking the newly changed overlapping grip to the golf course, when I had the urge to changed it back to the old comfort interlocking grip. And did changed it back several times before finally settled to the new overlapping grip. Never looked back since then and would feel funny when using the interlocking grip now.

                            As I aged, a funny phenomenon happened. I could swing all flex of shafts in drivers and irons ( for some reason not so well with fairway woods ), from my wife's F flex to my friend's A flex, R flex to my S flex and the few X flex from yester years. Only lose a few yards in the mid to long irons and the rest of the set would achieve similar distance except for the F/A flex driver would probably lose close to 20 yards comparing to the other flex.

                            The lesson for me is, nothing come quickly with my game of golf. Need to put in the effort ( sweat and $ ) to achieve the goal. Although I did see a few cases of extra ordinary improvement in golfers . One golfer I know broke 80 in his first year of picking up the game, although he played 2-3 times a week , he had busted the 3-4 years normal barrier for the average golfer to break the 80. Equipment are better these days, perhaps that helped in his case. Trying to break the 80 with butter knife blades and persimmon woods should be a little more difficult.

                                Release
                                Well, that's probably why I have never been a good golfer. Or decent. ☺ Fortunately I play with other guys who are about the same as me. What frustrates me is inconsistency. I can suddenly start hitting the ball like a complete beginner and I am then left to figure out what is wrong.

                                    Bankshot
                                    A 14 handicap would shoot a little higher than that on average, given how it's calculated. Even so, 14.3 is the average handicap among those who actually keep an official USGA handicap. So if you include ALL golfers, you would expect the average score to be higher.

                                        Bankshot
                                        Hard to believe better or worse?

                                        Even with an average score of 92 I'm a better player than more than half of the people I get paired with on public courses. Many that "score" lower than I do pad their score with numerous mulligans, gimme putts, and improved lies. I presume players at private clubs are better players since they probably play at least once a week, but on the public courses in the areas I've lived in, players that shoot a legitimate 85 or better must be in the top 20%.

                                            MidwayJ

                                            Two thumbs up !

                                            Golf should be enjoyed at any level of ability. It's not a beauty contest, although everyone want to be the prima donna ( even secretly ).

                                            Like I said, my goal back in the days was to get a birdie on every hole ( before I hit the tee shots ).

                                              My game developed in two stages really. I spent the first half of my golf experience learning how to hit the ball somewhat consistently, but spent a majority of my time working on my short game and putting. The second half of my experience was less about figuring out how to hit the ball, and more about learning how to score.

                                              I realized early on that I lacked the raw talent and power to make a ton of birdies. That's not to say that I couldn't tap into a nice stream of unconscious playing and score on the odd occasion. One of my more memorable rounds came about 6 years ago, at a course that really suited my game. I started the round with 3 consecutive bogeys, and really struggled to get anything going. But I didn't press and stayed patient, and went birdie, birdie, birdie, birdie, eagle on the closing 5 holes. Now granted - I only ended up shooting level par that day, but it underscored the value of not giving up on the round and continuing to grind.

                                              If my putter is on, I can expect 3-4 birdies per round. I'm generally average 12-13 greens per round, maybe 14-15 greens on a really good day. Putting has always been the make-or-break club for me. If I'm driving the ball halfway decent and putting okay, everything else tends to take care of itself. The good score at the end of those rounds just more or less come down to avoiding the blowup holes.

                                              During all these years of playing, I've learned something very important as it relates to my own personal game: if I don't worry about how I think others perceive my golf game, and don't get caught up in trying to swing the club perfectly, or fall into the pitfall of getting in a long-drive contest with those I play with - my game holds its' own. But when I'm not thinking about the target and focusing more on how my swing looks than it feels - it's gonna be a forgettable round.

                                              It's easy to shoot a respectable round when you're swinging well. But shooting a respectable score when you're not hitting it pure, having to manufacture certain recovery shots to keep par in the equation - those days are actually more gratifying to me. It indicates that I didn't give up.

                                              Every good player is always grinding. It doesn't mean they're not making mistakes or making bogeys, but they've refused to relent to desperation and thrown away everything that got them to that level to begin with.

                                              MidwayJ ok, that makes more sense. I've always been under the impression that the average player doesn't break 100. As you point out, mostly better players keep a usga cap.

                                                  Bankshot

                                                  I think the USGA maintains that a player who enters his scores accurately and accordingly, playing by the rules of course, will either play to his handicap or maybe better than his handicap on-average 30-40% of the time. In my 20 years of competitive golf, I believe this to be fairly accurate, at least as it pertains to me. So basically the handicap overall doesn't represent the level one should always play to, but rather the player's true potential.

                                                  Where the problems occur is when a player manipulates his handicap. You have the traditional sandbagger, who sports a 10 handicap but only because he doesn't post his really good scores. Each year, about a month or so before the member/member or member/guest tournaments roll around at my club, there are a couple of guys who don't necessarily mind shooting 5-6 strokes higher than their norm in the friendly matches, because they're wanting their handicaps to inflate a few points for the upcoming tournaments. Then we have one guy who just refuses to post his really good rounds. In fact - he was warned about this a year ago, and got caught doing it again just a few weeks ago. He shot 75 that day, then went inside and posted his score for an 82. It was brought to the head pro's attention, he investigated his scoring history in the handicap computer, caught him redhanded. He was informed that afternoon that his handicap would be adjusted 2 strokes lower, and if it happened again - he would be banned from competing in club-sanctioned events altogether. But for whatever reason, and despite all of the members knowing his history of gaming the system (cheating, really) - they still allow him to play in their weekday morning money games.

                                                  Then you have the lesser of the two evils - the vanity cappers - who either enter lower scores than what they really shot or only post their good rounds. For the most part I don't mind vanity cappers, because I know I really don't have to worry too much about those guys when I'm playing against them in tournaments, because obviously they can't play to their handicaps anyway. But where this can and sometimes does become a problem is when you have one of those guys in your regular group, and you play a team event and suddenly he's your partner. You know ahead of time that it's all on you... you're not getting any help from him whatsoever. And it's not really about the money, we don't wager big bucks. Most of the time the most a player will lose is 8-10 bucks. But the competitive aspect of enjoying a fair match and competing to win - that's more important than the money really.

                                                  I had a situation like this last season. I was managing a group of roughly 12 guys, and two of the guys hardly ever played to their handicap. We're talking maybe one time in 15 rounds they would play to their handicap, and the rest of the time they were 6-8 shots higher than their handicap. Well, that 30-40% of the time the USGA talks about applies to them too, and like I said - it's fairly accurate. So I knew something was going on. And they're nice guys, but their egos just won't allow their handicaps to exceed a certain range, as if they somehow get their rocks off telling their buddies at work that they're 12 handicaps, when really they can't break 90 most rounds.

                                                  Anyway... when I would do the pairings for the teams each weekend, whoever I paired those two guys with - they were pretty much assured that they weren't gonna win, because obviously they couldn't play to their handicaps, and it's two-man teams.

                                                  Now we're all friends, none of us are really as good as we think we are. I can just as easily shoot 84 some days as I can 75 other days, and we're all like that to some degree. But these two guys were, for all intents and purposes, noncompetitive in our group. And they were noncompetitive because they weren't posting accurate scores, or posting only their better rounds. I know this because I did my own little investigation of both of their handicap histories on the handicap computer, and right away I knew what was going on.

                                                  But being the group leader, I was left with no other choice but to confront them about it. And that wasn't easy, because I knew they were gonna take it personally. And sure enough - both of them took it personally. And it was at that point that I had to think about the other 10 guys in my group. Sorry, fellas. If you can't play by the rules - you can't play with us.

                                                  After doing the group leader things for two seasons, I finally called it quits after last year. It was beginning to be too much work, too many personality conflicts, too many issues. I found three other guys to play with this season and I must say that it has been much less stressful and much more enjoyable.