limpalong I was not disparaging your son’s viewpoint, just sharing that the vets I know don’t regard the flag or the anthem as just a cloth and a song. I also have three of those flags on my mantle. I have not served.

Freedom gives Kaepernick the right to protest how he wishes. It also gives anyone else the right to disagree, to counterprotest, and even to place his image into a context that doesn’t match the one that Nike would like to present. The right to free speech is not a right to do so without contention, it is a right to do so without repression by the government. To that end I respect your freedom to see the issue as you do, but I have chosen not to support this particular means of protest.

      Par4QC https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/opinion/sunday/unequal-sentences-for-blacks-and-whites.html

      This is just one example of the disparity in one county and in one state. There are many others. It's systematic, and the people being abused probably don't even know it. That's why they don't file discrimination suits. This may come as a surprise to you, but the average drug dealer or burglar probably doesn't have the data on what kind of time his/her white counterparts are serving. They are told their crime is worth X amount of time, and they have no reason to disbelieve it. Are you trying to suggest that there is no such thing as institutionalized racism? If so, are you serious?

      As far as "doing what they are told" is concerned, how do you explain the situations in which the cops shoot somebody who is walking away or who is driving away? The other thing that you might not understand is that in some people there is a deep distrust of law enforcement, and sometimes for good reason. They may be experiencing a kind of panic that makes it more difficult for them to think rationally at that exact moment in time. Personally, I don't think it's for me to judge.

      And yes, you are entitled to your opinion and have a constitutional right to express it, as do I.

          If people can walk or run away from law enforcement at will, then there is no law enforcement. You can’t logically argue that law enforcement cannot act on someone that is willfully disobeying their instructions just because they’re going in the other direction. Otherwise everyone will just head the other way. I don’t trust much of our government either, but laws either need to be followed or they don’t. Either you have order, or you have anarchy. I’m fine either way, just let me know which it is.

          There have also been mandatory sentencing laws to create some sense consistency in sentencing. Paradoxically, It seems they are also deemed to be discriminatory by The NY Times.

            The value of a father figure who is there in the backdrop to provide support, encourage and disciipline cannot be overlooked. And this doesn't just apply to one ethnicity group in particular.

            Family's with a father figure teaching their kids right from wrong tends to alleviate a lot of issues.

            johnnydoom The issue is whether the officers have any valid reason to stop somebody or to ask somebody to do something. They have no right to stop people for no reason, or to tell people to do this or that when if said people are minding their own business, either.

                rsvman Is there a statistic that shows how often, by race, that law enforcement hassles people? I’ve had police ask me what I was up to when wandering about before, and even to show I.D. I didn’t take it personally, just told them what I was doing and showed them I.D. Even got handcuffed one time when I was hiking in a park where some crime had been committed. They detained me until confirming I wasn’t the suspect they were looking for. I wasn’t happy in that circumstance, but I did what they told me to because I was taught that from birth.

                    I’ll stop. I enjoy argumentative discussion as long as it doesn’t get personal, but I know many on here don’t like it if it’s not golf related. I apologize for drifting off.

                    johnnydoom unlikely to be a stat about being hassled by police. I don't question racial disparity, it's across the board, arressts, sentencing, child welfare, etc. Quite frankly it.gets old even talking about it, I'm more interested in what can be done about it!
                    I can't imagine being an officer in today's climate, they have a rediculously tough job to do, yet seem to have little of any positive news in the press. Overwhelmingly it's.about who f'ed up today. Once law enforcement has to get involved, likely outcome = not good, and that is not to suggest the police have done anything wrong, but once anyone enters the system, the chance of being a stat goes up! So when I say what can be done about racial disparity, I mean before the police even get involved, that's a more interesting discussion, IMO....and I don't see folks getting personal so carry on!

                        rsvman

                        You've got people saying they don't understand how someone can call themselves black when they aren't 100 percent black. And you expect these same people to understand what institutionalized racism even means?

                        Like I said we've got a long way to go. I choose to believe every generation gets a little better as far as race is concerned, even though it seems very incremental at times. Sometimes I do believe there aren't enough ignorant racist old white guys dying off fast enough though.

                            ode Once law enforcement has to get involved, likely outcome = not good, and that is not to suggest the police have done anything wrong, but once anyone enters the system, the chance of being a stat goes up!

                            In my opinion, cameras on head gear or in the squad car have been a huge positive impact on law enforcement officers AND the person(s) in the encounter. Accountability. Protection for both parties.

                              Sneakylong Like I said we've got a long way to go. I choose to believe every generation gets a little better as far as race is concerned

                              This is true. I've heard stories from coworkers about things their older clients used to do/say to people of color and it's unimaginable to me.

                              Segregation ended, what, 50 years ago? There are still plenty of people alive who rallied against it, and pockets of the country/world where color makes a big difference.

                              Innocent people being hurt/killed is very bad. I imagine it's tough being a youth in a bad area, and tough to be a cop in those same areas. Cops feel like they're hated by the people, people feel like they're hated by the cops. Its easy to see how bad things could happen out of fear, on both sides.

                              A good step would be - obey police, be polite, do not escalate situations by forcing the officer to make a judgment call. Likewise, treat citizens with respect, do not abuse authority, mend the wounds created by previous generations.

                              Easier said than done.

                                Sneakylong

                                A ridiculous and misleading opening sentence. Tell me, Sneak, is Kaepernick black? Was Obama? I will then ask is Kaepernick white? Was Obama? How can you understand institutional racism, or anything for that matter, if you can't understand simple truths?

                                My commentary was that why is Kaepernick thought of as black when he's half white and half black? Same for Obama. The black half is promoted as if that's the extent of their makeup. Obama was not the first black president. He was the first not all white president or half black president. These aren't racist statements. They're the truth. I don't care how one identifies and I can understand Kaepernick identifying with African Americans because one of his parents was one and he's half African American himself. However, he is not an African American. He's half. He's no more black than he is white.

                                I understand racism. I live in Texas and worked in law enforcement in East Texas. I witnessed it all the time and heard it on occasion. I've seen brutality on all races. White juries do hand down harsher sentences to black offenders. In the same way an all black jury would come to very different conclusions on cases of white police officer shootings and brutality.

                                    I think you all give far too many shits about what Colin Kaepernick does. This is the most its occupied my brain, ever - and I blame you all 😃

                                      hobbit I think you all give far too many shits about what Colin Kaepernick does. This is the most its occupied my brain, ever - and I blame you all 😃

                                      I blame Chuck

                                      😉

                                        Toulon My commentary was that why is Kaepernick thought of as black when he's half white and half black? Same for Obama. The black half is promoted as if that's the extent of their makeup. Obama was not the first black president. He was the first not all white president or half black president. These aren't racist statements. They're the truth. I don't care how one identifies and I can understand Kaepernick identifying with African Americans because one of his parents was one and he's half African American himself. However, he is not an African American. He's half. He's no more black than he is white.

                                        Whew...thanks for this reply. I thought he was talking about me, for a moment there. With his rose colored glasses on, while typing nonsense.

                                          Toulon

                                          Here's a little history including the one drop rule to hopefully help you understand.

                                          "To be considered black in the United States not even half of one's ancestry must be African black. But will one-fourth do, or one-eighth, or less? The nation's answer to the question 'Who is black?" has long been that a black is any person with any known African black ancestry. This definition reflects the long experience with slavery and later with Jim Crow segregation. In the South it became known as the "one-drop rule,'' meaning that a single drop of "black blood" makes a person a black. It is also known as the "one black ancestor rule," some courts have called it the "traceable amount rule," and anthropologists call it the "hypo-descent rule," meaning that racially mixed persons are assigned the status of the subordinate group. This definition emerged from the American South to become the nation's definition, generally accepted by whites and blacks."

                                          F. James Davis is a retired professor of sociology at Illinois State University. He is the author of numerous books, including Who is Black? One Nation's Definition (1991), from which this excerpt came from.

                                              Sneakylong

                                              It's just like you to cherry pick to paint a picture that fits with your confirmation bias. This is ONE person's definition. It's not based in fact it's based on opinion. A person with one white parent and one black parent is not black nor are they white. You want to confuse this issue for some bizarre reason. Is it because you want to belive Obama was the first black president? He wasn't. Again, he was the first not all white or half black president, or half white president. Not black. Kaepernick is the same.

                                              By the definition you've applied I'll bet if Ancestry.com was around to test all the presidents before Obama we've had a one drop of blood black president long before him.

                                              This is from the same source you cherry picked from:

                                              Not only does the one-drop rule apply to no other group than American blacks, but apparently the rule is unique in that it is found only in the United States and not in any other nation in the world. In fact, definitions of who is black vary quite sharply from country to country, and for this reason people in other countries often express consternation about our definition. James Baldwin relates a revealing incident that occurred in 1956 at the Conference of Negro-African Writers and Artists held in Paris. The head of the delegation of writers and artists from the United States was John Davis. The French chairperson introduced Davis and then asked him why he considered himself Negro, since he certainly did not look like one. Baldwin wrote, "He is a Negro, of course, from the remarkable legal point of view which obtains in the United States, but more importantly, as he tried to make clear to his interlocutor, he was a Negro by choice and by depth of involvement--by experience, in fact."

                                              ----Oh, and let me add...I think you unwittingly did something here. How have blacks been characterized in this country? Not well. Less than whites. This is a disparaging definition to say that ANYONE with a single drop is black relegating them to status of less than a white. As in...a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Pretty sad. Sadder that you chose this to try and prove your point.