Raising the minimum wage just forces businesses to adapt their labor to meet the requirement, and if anything, reduces the amount of people they hire on. If actually read some businesses literally closing up because of this sort of legislation.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/04/30/and-here-is-as-we-said-the-effect-of-seattles-15-an-hour-minimum-wage-on-employment/#b2b1e631063b

Sadly, that sort of legislation works against someone like me who has scraped and worked hard for 22 years in this business, only to see my hourly wage be just above what your city proposed and passed into law. What sort of message does that send to someone like me? That the $3.35 I worked for at McDonald's in 1983 was a waste of my time and experience? That the $15 an hour I made after many years in this business means that all that experience is worth nothing?

Ironically, in another state that shall remain nameless, my 24 year old daughter just went back to work at Target, and due to her previous experience there, they started her back at $12 an hour. She just asked me for help in buying a car today, to which I replied, "I don't make much more than your $12 an hour, so who is helping who here?" Translation, you're on your own.

We've severely devalued experience and hard work in our country now, and when you hand someone $15 an hour to flip burgers or ask someone if they want fries with that meal, then you are telling me that my 22 years of experience isn't worth crap, and I'd be better off working one of those jobs at $15 an hour with less stress and not having to think through complex problems and procedures, that come with this job.

At some point the "entitlement generation" will run out of other people's money to float their little life project with. I told that to my daughter today as well. She's nearly 24 years old, and is seemingly running up a pile of debt while she figures out what and where she wants to go in life. I kind of told her that it's past midnight, and your glass slipper wasn't found by Prince Charming. Better get busy working and figure it out yourself. I'm done being your ATM card.

    PIGDivot

    You have to remember this, relativity is to be considered before comparing.

    In our City, Capital hill demands $2300 rent for a 400 square foot one bedroom apartment/condo. Average 2 bedroom apartment anywhere close to the metropolitan area will be over $1200.
    Anyone need to shell out more than $1000 for rent, better think of getting a better job than minimum wage soon. Some entrepreneur pay "livable wage" I don;t know how much is that but it worked for the owners of Mod Pizza, which had grown so fast, they're going international soon.

    Others I talked to in the retail service industry told me when the minimum hourly wage went up the manager cut their hours back and stretch the cover by using less workers for the same work load .

    Google productivity vs. wages. After WW II productivity and wages rose together. Then around 1973 while productivity kept rising, wages flat lined. It's been that way since (increasing productivity and declining wages). Why? Corporate greed IMO.

    Couple that with Supply Side economics that's still with us since the early 1980's (regressive tax policy favoring the wealthy). Globalization where an American worker cannot compete with third world wages. The decline in labor unions where they're only ~ 9 % of the workforce. Transferring to a lower wage service based economy from a higher paying manufacturing based economy.

    With all those economic forces against the working class and favoring the donor class it's no wonder why the middle class is in decline and has been for quite some time.

    A billionaire hedge fund guy wrote a book awhile ago saying the pitch forks are coming if the greed continues. As the nations wealth continues to be redistributed to the top incomes eventually there will be a tipping point. This presidential election cycle may be a glimpse of what lies ahead.

    History shows what happens when a country responds to such huge disparities in class with "let them eat cake". How long will the corporate oligarchy / plutocrats continue to have it their way at the expense of everyone else? Time will tell.

    Right now I've just had enough of life. I quit playing, just too depressed. Every time I turn around its another project at home, or more shit breaks, or a car breaks down out of the blue. I write $1000 checks daily it seems.

    I need blades for my tractor.....have had the same blades since 1999. Can't get caught up.

    Work is another problem,, numbers are down and I've always said that because I work with fools we would be screwed the day we are faced with adversity. Everyday a new direction that I know only puts us further behind......very frustrating and mentally exhausting after 15 years there. I'm interviewing but the thought of leaving scares me.

    Just not in a good place right now....I see a lot of u like that as well.

    Things could be worse....they are for those people in poor health, or have children with cancer....been there...

      Typhoon

      John,

      Man you need a picker upper ! Kinda need a kick in the arse once you're buried in that sorry mood.

      Many of us are in the same shape or worse, you're right about this, and we need to get moving on. A thousand dollar bill is not that bad , actually.
      I was being hit with more than $3000 per month 9 month out of a year for having 2 in the higher education. It seemed when I just got the credit card paid off and here comes the next one. Never had a chance to take a break, not yet. Our savings had been going down and down. We don't have any vice in life except that we enjoy good food with the kids. Not restaurant food , just home cooking. Yes, I consider that a vice since we could do without "good food".

      I told my wife I'll never complain and will suck it up and keep going, if, no one complains of no vacation or new car or something like that. I'm the quiet kind of guy to do what it needs to be done but I could not do it with people complaining around me.

      Although, if someone tells me right now that they could use what I know and learned and pay me more $ ..... I'd jump on it without complain for another 6-8 years. That's the time when my youngest one would be getting out of graduate school.

      I looked at the homeless living in the tent city along the freeway and felt lucky to have a chance to work. No matter what reason the homeless slipped down the skeet street, it's a life no one wants .

      I will plug along, and so can you John.

      It's like the island green at the Sawgrass, we have to play it to finish the 18, scared of water hazard and the slick green will only add misery to the process.

      Typhoon Right now I've just had enough of life. I quit playing, just too depressed.

      I did the opposite. Started playing again just to escape reality for a few hours. So I try and kill a little white ball, instead of the alternative, or myself.

      Golf is therapy (well, unless your swing is off, then you might as well drink).

      Sometimes I feel squeezed, but I know the real truth. I work far less and have far more than 90% of people in this world. I'm lucky enough to be blessed with a fairly strong mind, capable body and a willingness to work for my own goals. Do I have everything I want? No. Could I use more money? Yes. I sit in that dying middle class and certainly could use some tax breaks and more time for golf, but overall, I have a good life. If I really want more money/things/stuff etc, I can make more, but to me, time is the real value and I'm not going to use all of mine on work.

        DC300

        Great that you have this mind set !
        Learn to do the best with what we have is the key.
        http://www.brianlukeseaward.com/the-secret-of-happiness-is-contentment/

        I once have a friend whom had everything, a successful high tech job ( moving up every 2 years ), a great family with a working wife and two kids. A nice house in a sought after neighborhood, 5 new cars in 8 years ( including a H2 and a convertible ).

        He went on golf excursions where I had never been and probably never will with his other friends....... enjoy life ?
        But he always wanted more. what's on his plate was never enough and never good enough.

        I call that a mental issue for I had witness when his family went to an all you can eat buffet , they will get a plate full and wouldn't finish the plate then went back and got mostly the same stuff, several times. It's an all you can eat buffet but the behavior not only wasting food , also showed the family members had issue of not happy with what's on their plate.

        Never good enough and always wanted more and more, more than they could swallow......... He was chapter 13 and divorced about 9 years ago.

        We should always looking up and wanting to improve ourselves, may that be a personal project or anything you want in life. A goal to keep life interesting. Along the way we should also learn to enjoy the journey.

        Sometimes a good cup of coffee ( tea ) and a great book with a few hours of spare time is the best time of the day ...... sitting in my chair reading the book with a hot cup of beverage is very satisfying ( for a few hours ). Stop and smell the roses is a learned process, to enjoy life more and get more out of it. By rejuvenating we could get on with the task on hands.

        There was an interesting story in the local paper a couple of days ago. It doesn't directly relate to getting squeezed, but interesting nonetheless.
        Nau's Pharmacy has been located in West Austin since at least the 50's. It's still an old time pharmacy where you can fill a prescription and get a burger and shake. Same family has been running it the entire time. Given that everyone goes to CVS and fast food places these days the family is struggling to keep it open. But it is an institution in the community.

        Sidenote: Thomas "Hollywood" Henderson hit the Texas Lottery jackpot many years ago with tickets he bought there. He's hit the jackpot twice actually.
        The original family home sits a few block away. It's close to 100 years old (if not over) but is in severe disrepair. The family wants to raze it and sell the lot. Lot is worth $1.5M (house appraised at $50K I think). Problem solved! But wait. Neighbors say home is historic and want it declared as such. They think it could be repaired. But in present state no one is interested in buying. Meanwhile taxes are on the order of $35K for the family.

          swinnea

          Sometimes for the sake of protecting the historic relic including old buildings, will force the unthinkable.

          Ever notice there were fire going off in the vacant building all over the States ? Especially in places where real estate values are high ? New York and Long Island had several of such fires last year. New owner let the property go beyond repair and the homeless were occupying the buildings then one day, there were fire. Good Bye old building.
          If the municipality were interested in keeping the historical building in their jurisdiction, then they'll need to figure out a way to lessen the burden of the property owner. A close friend had inherited an 100 year old building in San Francisco. Same thing, could not take it down.......so they remodeled the structure to meet the new building code and renovated the interior to be habitable. A million and a quarter later, they are still not completely done.

          The dirty secret is, when the family could not sell the property with such building on top of the lot and no funds to renovate the building then the tax pilled up, soon the local County could just persuade the owner to "donate" the property to the County.

          We have a lovely 53 acre botanical garden within the City limit, it came about being donated to the City because the legacy of the property tax just about killed any chance for development.

          Property taxes are just one way the government owns your home and land. Even without a mortgage you are simply renting the property for life. Why buy property?

          My wife and I are considering getting an RV and selling the house once we retire and travel the country. Of course that eliminates property taxes, but I am sure the government will find some way of taxing you on the RV, depending on where you have it registered.

          Franklin was right; death and taxes are the only certainties in life.

            PIGDivot

            It's not all blue sky living in a RV.

            One of my wife's friend did just that. The couple retired in their mid 50's ( hunsband from Microsoft and the wife from management position in a local hospital ) sold the house and belongings, got a nice RV to travel the North America and live at wherever they stopped in a RV park, for as long as they feel like it then move on to the next spot. Great life style they thought. They penciled out the possible expenses and layout the plan for 15 years.
            Came back after 5 years and settled into a smaller house and both started working full time. Could not get their old job back so they are working harder with less pay. Tough to start over again when one is approaching 60.

            There are expenses associated with living in the RV type of residence. It's far more expensive than one could have imagine. Maybe that;s why we have homeless living in RV all over the City. City leaders have to create a RV park for all these old junkers RV to park, then they pull the park because of all the problems associated with these type of charity. I guess those thought they could solve the living cost issue by moving into an old RV.
            Some people here live on their boat , sail boat or power boat. Until County made it against the ordinance if not docked at permuted spots.

            Best way is not to get into the downward spiral. Our cities are trying to get new programs going to keep people in their houses, condos, or apartments. Stop the homeless epidemic from the start. Some programs worked as part of the solution but nothing is innovative to be learned and taught in other part of the Nation.

            I guess I'm one of the lucky one's.....timed the housing bubble in SoCal sold near the top.
            Got the hell out of THAT rat race life and moved to Utah where it's way cheaper to live,
            people for the most part are WAY nicer,no traffic and some fantastic golf courses at affordable
            prices.....a LOT depends on where and how you live and if you're willing to take a risk.

            I had no idea what I was getting into when I decided to leave Cali...but I'm glad I did!

            Google productivity vs. wages. After WW II productivity and wages rose together. Then around 1973 while productivity kept rising, wages flat lined. It's been that way since (increasing productivity and declining wages). Why? Corporate greed IMO.

            Couple that with Supply Side economics that's still with us since the early 1980's (regressive tax policy favoring the wealthy). Globalization where an American worker cannot compete with third world wages. The decline in labor unions where they're only ~ 9 % of the workforce. Transferring to a lower wage service based economy from a higher paying manufacturing based economy.

            With all those economic forces against the working class and favoring the donor class it's no wonder why the middle class is in decline and has been for quite some time.

            A billionaire hedge fund guy wrote a book awhile ago saying the pitch forks are coming if the greed continues. As the nations wealth continues to be redistributed to the top incomes eventually there will be a tipping point. This presidential election cycle may be a glimpse of what lies ahead.

            History shows what happens when a country responds to such huge disparities in class with "let them eat cake". How long will the corporate oligarchy / plutocrats continue to have it their way at the expense of everyone else? Time will tell.
            Interesting that you mention this, I was reading an article from "In These Times", that was attacking working people and unions undermining the Maduro government which is in the middle of the failure of communal economic system.
            Up is down and down is up.

              Umfaan A billionaire hedge fund guy wrote a book awhile ago saying the pitch forks are coming if the greed continues. As the nations wealth continues to be redistributed to the top incomes eventually there will be a tipping point. This presidential election cycle may be a glimpse of what lies ahead.

              History shows what happens when a country responds to such huge disparities in class with "let them eat cake". How long will the corporate oligarchy / plutocrats continue to have it their way at the expense of everyone else? Time will tell.
              Interesting that you mention this, I was reading an article from "In These Times", that was attacking working people and unions undermining the Maduro government which is in the middle of the failure of communal economic system.
              Up is down and down is up.

              I don't disagree with this, but I think there are several underlying factors playing a bigger role in all of this. I do think that morality comes into play on multiple levels, especially since you cited greed as an issue, which is certainly a moral issue.

              I cite morality, mostly because if you lose your integrity, you lose your conscience, and you lose your fear of getting caught, and fear or the consequences of getting caught. There are a lot of different directions you can run with this, but let's just look at the nuclear family, and the disintegration of it over the span of my lifetime. I think I read somewhere recently that married folks are no longer the majority in our country anymore. Everyone is "hooking up" now. So, since the sex is "free", and you don't need to be married, people are having fewer kids. People are also waiting later and later to marry or have kids, if at all.

              But back to greed - corporate greed certainly comes into play, and greed at it's core, is simply selfishness. When you think of yourself first, and screw over everyone else, you may be richer, but everyone around you is suffering. Eventually that selfishness will kill you. And sadly, I'd hate to be the rich prick living my life alone at the end, because I screwed over everyone on the way to the top. How can this define what life is about in any terms? Sure, you can buy anything you want, but who are you going to share that experience with? Go ahead, build your own golf course, just for you to play on, with no friends, and no family. You can play 54 holes a day and have no one to tell about it. But yeah, that's great for you. Sure sounds miserable to me.

              Honestly, I think guns are the only thing that separates the USA now from China. The Chinese are kept in check because no one can shoot back. Go ahead and try and take over a town or city in this country outside the democratic process. I know a LOT of people who are heavily armed, and thanks to Obama, he's only made that issue more pressing, as more and more folks are arming up to the teeth in preparation for when the feds try and take over more and more stuff. Frankly, this nation was founded by a bunch of guys who owned guns. The British lost because the people had will on their side, and a lot of guns. Sure the red coats could and did go door to door, but they never knew which door would open to an armed citizen.

              We live in a time when rules and law are subjective and interpreted differently all over the place. There is no national standard for anything anymore. Even murder and rape are VERY subjective, depending on the circumstances. And we've allowed a judicial oligarchy to make up the law as they go along. A select few in black robes dictating to the populace what is right and what is wrong. Honestly, even their rulings are so complex and convoluted half the time that no one can truly understand them. And I'm actually surprised there aren't more murders of judges, especially from the family courts, where fathers are stripped of their constitutional rights in favor of making them slaves to a mother who simply didn't want to be around the father anymore; using a child as a monetary weapon to bankrupt the father both physically and morally. Sure, I'm being vague and generic, but I could spend days talking about how the family courts have not only neutered men, but has easily destroyed the lives of thousands of men, all in the name of "what's best for the child." And yeah, if I'm a 20-something man, there is no way in hell I am getting married in this day and age where the courts can cut your nuts off without even your having a say so.

              And some of you will disagree big time with what I am closing this with, but we've lost the fear of God in this country. God used to be our compass and our guide, and we lived by what God says was right and wrong. Now our country is basically telling God to go F himself, as we've kicked God to the curb in favor of personal social freedoms, so everyone can go screw anything and everything they feel good about, with ZERO objective standard in any of it. You may think this doesn't matter in the least, but whether or not you believe in God really has nothing to do with it. Ultimately, if you kick God out of the public square, you have to replace it with something else. And society has chosen chaos, which is the alternative. That's ultimately where we are headed, which leads us back to pitch forks and revolution. It's coming; not a matter of if, but when.

                PIGDivot

                There had always been and always will be the disgruntled wishing to have what they don't have.

                It is healthy to have something to look forward to in life. Except when the disgruntled decided not to work for what they want and just take it by force . Excuses will be invented and used to justify their action.

                Here's a short clip from Nick Hanauer (on Bill Mahr's show this past week) who is the rich guy I referenced in my post. He rips into Trickle Down economics and exposed it for the scam it always was. As I've said Trickle Down is nothing more than redistributing wealth to the rich from the middle class and working poor.

                Also, although not in this clip he says if wages were still in line with productivity the minimum wage would be $22.00 and hour.

                A personal opinion is but "a personal opinion"

                Where is your opinion ? Every time you reference the other's opinion and argue from the position of facing the corner.
                If you lead an army to war, you will have the whole troop killed in no time.

                Don't try to win the battle, try to win the war.

                In other words, look at the larger picture instead of microfiche.

                Where would a $22 minimum wage lead up to ? Higher inflation and bankrupt most of the remaining small businesses. When will you figure out that most the stuff which looks good on paper would never fly in reality.

                You are over loaded with information from everywhere but you could not filter and select the ones best suited your model.

                I gave my opinion in post #20.

                But since you asked here's more of my opinion in a nut shell.

                A job is created because of demand for a good or service and not because of tax cuts for the rich (supply side / trickle down / Reaganomics).

                A higher minimum wage would put more money in the hands of consumers. Since our economy is two thirds consumer based it would drive up demand by putting more money in the hands of the masses instead of a few at the top. You might call it 'trickle up' or 'demand side' economics.

                You're reciting the same talking point myths that have helped keep wages stagnant for the last 40 plus years. What that economic theory has created is a rigged economic system where the nations wealth is redistributed to the top incomes like we haven't seen in a long time.

                How has this happened you may ask? Over the years instead of a democracy we have become more of a corporate oligarchy. Basically government by a few for the few.

                Several years ago I talked to a labor lawyer. In his career he has worked for both sides (labor and corporations). He said the pendulum has swung way over in favor of the corporations.

                People think things like a minimum wage, the 40 hour work week, ending child labor, benefits, safe working conditions, vacation pay, overtime pay etc., were given to workers because of the benevolence of corporations. These are the same people who probably believe in the mythical trickle down economics.

                The truth is the American tax payer is subsidizing large corporations like Wal-Mart. How? Because they pay such low wages many of their workers need government programs like food stamps etc. to get by.

                The bottom line is this, there has been a concerted effort by the powers that be to keep wages low in this country. Why? The evidence is clear. Pure unadulterated greed.

                How much longer can this massive redistribution of the nations wealth to the few at the very top continue? Who knows. But first the mindset of people like you need to change. If you keep buying into these bullshit economic myths like supple side / trickle down and higher wages will ruin the economy, it will continue.

                I think people are starting to wake up though.

                  I feel sorry for your family !