PA-PLAYA It causes me to appreciate what @Par4QC said in the third post of the thread when he opined, And that makes him just as good as the next guy; not the Tiger of 10 yrs. ago......the next guy. Quite capable of winning any tournament. Same as......the next guy. Not sure why everyone keeps expecting to see 'that guy' from 10 yrs. ago. Gone. 10 yrs. ago.(I think😉)

Very astute observation by one of our very own.

Been saying this very thing for years. What plays a role and IMO a more significant role is that there are guys who hit it longer, straighter, and have better up and down ability now vs. when Tiger was in his prime (ie competition way better). He was that guy, and very clearly better than everyone else, now there are a handful of guys, maybe more. If we could transplant that guy in today's game it truly would be a marvel to watch vs. the new guys, who are simply following the old TW mold.

      johnnydoom

      Trust me - it can be just as hot in Akron that time of year as it is in Memphis. Tree-lined course, no air circulating even if there is a breeze... just a hot, sweaty round of golf.

      I wouldn't think of walking 72 holes in this weather this time of year. I'd croak.

      I guess that's why they do what they do and why I sit at home in air-conditioning, eating chips and salsa and sipping on a Corona while watching them sweat their asses off. 😆

        ode

        Yep. Experience means a lot, but there's no denying the youth factor. And these younger guys are ready to win no sooner than they get on tour, whereas it used to take at least 7-8 years for them to make that adjustment. That bellcurve is no longer in play.

        Russell Henley is a good example, won his very first event start as a rookie. And the talent that has come after him has been no less impressive.

        Between playing collegiate golf at very competitive universities and spending a year or so on the web.com tour - these guys don't need 10 years to figure it out. They don't even need half that time. They've performed under a high degree of stress, be it in college or the web.com, and are ready to hit the ground running when they earn the cards.

        Remember when there was this fallout not all that long ago about Q-school and how players would no longer have that as a direct route to the tour, that they would have to earn their PGA Tour cards via the web.com?

        A lot of older guys who cashed a lot of checks by just making the weekend cut and an occasional top-20 - they bitched like no tomorrow. They felt like they were being shortchanged. But today - you don't see many older guys playing like it used to be, guys taking up space just to cash in on a weekend cut. This change with how the tour decided to reroute the avenue to earn a tour card - it made things much more highly competitive. Younger guys who want to win, who have the game to win, vs the older players simply trying to hang on for 3-4 more years until they qualify for the Champions Tour.

        Initially I wasn't for doing away with the traditional Q-school process... but it's bore fruit for the tour. They separated the wheat from the chaff and there is more parity in golf now than ever before.

        Yet the best players still rise to the top much of the time.

            PA-PLAYA makes the vets like Steve Stricker (there are others I'm sure but Steve comes to mind) high level of play so much more of an accomplishment. To be that good, for that long at a high level is amazing to me. He still competed well against the current crop. Seems to me this will be exception vs. the rule nowadays.

                ode

                Agree. But then again - the competitive older guys aren't needing to go to Q-school. Strick played a very abbreviated schedule the last few years leading up to his Champions Tour eligibility, yet remained competitive.

                The change wasn't designed to weed out guys like Steve Stricker, who still had game, and still has game. It was designed to weed out the one-hit wonders who'd made a living making well over half a million per year just simply making the weekends.

                Strick could still easily gain his tour card next season if he wanted. He'd have to play a few more events, perhaps, but he's still competitive.

                When was the last time Freddie Couples won a PGA Tour event?

                Anybody?

                The 2003 Shell Houston Open.

                I love Freddie as much as the next guy because of his laid-back style, but I was in my early 30's when he last won on the young guys tour.

                I think the changes they made have worked out very well.

                • ode likes this.

                  ZWExton Back to the main point, why are you admittedly double asshole (your words, I don't necessarily agree!) on the internet? Why is anyone?
                  Because, if I feel like disagreeing with you, you can't withhold sexual relations as a form of punishment. (Not that you'd interest me in the least.)

                    It looks like Bellreve does not set up well for TW, most all 4 and 5 pars are dogs left. Does TW even make the cut? I'm saying he struggles to do so.

                    We (all, perhaps) are asking a lot out of this guy named Tiger. He's just not going to return to that guy from 'back then'; imo, he cannot! We all think he stunk up the course this weekend, but did he? Compare his results with the others that are mentioned as being his 'successors'. How did they fare yesterday, as he was showing us he is indeed, human? A lot of players of caliber were making big moves, but at the end of Sunday,(& Saturday), they played no better than he did. Do we expect that of them, but not him? Ranked around #50 in the world, and they are all ranked higher. Much bigger surprises were the way Rory and Jason shit themselves(playing very similar to/worse than Tiger) when they both should have been rolling over Justin. DJ was the only one making any fireworks, and he crapped himself on the back 9; playing 'no bogey golf' instead of 'no holds barred golf'! TW played like a zombie right out of the gate Sat. and carried it over on Sunday.

                    imo, he is back. As a fairly good player named Tiger Woods, 2018 version. Played several tournaments, done well in quite a few. He'll do fine. Remember, he's got a new putter and stance. He's been changing driver shafts around. Different swing. Different ball(maybe). etc.

                    Ya gotta feel like you know this guy....he just hasn't made any posts here yet. Plays good. Plays bad. And apparently, has turned into the richest ho imagined. 😉

                      Tiger's current niche is playing two good rounds the first two days and then struggling when he sees players in the fast lane passing him by. I'm guessing he feels he needs to go bonkers on the weekend to stay in contention, but that strategy hasn't worked thus far.

                      Maybe it's much too early to expect that level of improved play under pressure from him at this point, or perhaps he simply no longer has the ability to tap into that extra gear.

                      I no longer compare him to his prior self 12-15 years ago. I compare him to the guys playing today. I don't anticipate him running the tables and winning back-to-back events anymore. Doesn't mean he can't have a great week, but there is no fear of Tiger Woods in the hunt on Sunday these days in these young guns. He no longer has that intimidating factor going for him, these guys today aren't looking over their shoulder to see where Tiger is.

                      And until he wins something, anything, that's not gonna change. And even if he does win something - not sure it changes anything.

                      I think there's just a few parts of Tiger's game that aren't back yet and it's putting too much pressure on the parts that are working over the course of four rounds. If he is able to practice with some frequency over the next few months I think he'll get better. That's a big if, but all indications right now seem to point to him getting better in the short run.

                        johnnydoom

                        I think the big IF revolves around him not re-injuring his back. He's had so many back operations that I've lost count. It's like 4, right?

                        I don't think he'll return to the game if he has another setback. I don't think he will be physically capable to compete again if it happens.

                            PA-PLAYA I agree. Another back surgery probably signals the end. I really think he needs to use more time practicing and less time competing right now so that he can work on the areas that are troubling him and not on what's needed for the specific course in front of him. I think he would except that he has an obligation to the sponsors that signed on for the comeback or that have stayed with him and he wants to get their brands out in front of the cameras. I don't know what his schedule is after the PGA, but I think if there are significant breaks prior to the Masters it will do his game some good.

                                johnnydoom

                                If memory serves, he typically shut things down from November onward, outside of competing in Dubai in January.... he'd usually play at Torrey Pines in Feb, then wouldn't play again until the Florida swing, since the Masters is roughly a month later. Or I seem to recall anyway.

                                He'll have plenty of time to rest and practice once the Ryder Cup is over. I do think Furyk will pick him. I know Furyk said last week that they'd treat him like everyone else, but that's just lip service. The PGA (in both Europe and the US) want him there if he's physically capable of playing, for obvious reasons.

                                I would be shocked if Furyk leaves him off the team, I'll put it that way.

                                    PA-PLAYA I can't really imagine Tiger not getting a captain's pick. No matter what his off the course issues were, he's the greatest active player and is still playing at a high level. I think it would be better for him if he didn't, but it's a situation that would be a bad look if the invitation is not extended, or if it is not accepted (unless he can get a note from his doctor).

                                        johnnydoom

                                        He needs to play better than he did at Firestone to get the pick. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion. Furyk will take heavy criticism if Tiger limps in and gets a Capt pick and lays flat in France. Hopefully Furyk has the stones to pick someone else if Tiger isn't playing good enough leading into pick day. And I hope he tells Tiger so!

                                            ode If Furyk bypasses who is arguably the 2nd best golfer in history to give someone else a captain's pick he either has monster stones, hates Tiger, or isn't very bright. Tiger doesn't have a good Ryder cup record and isn't near the top for qualifying, but if his entire body of work up to now isn't good enough then all I can say is whoever Furyk picks in his place better be the hero of the competition.

                                                johnnydoom

                                                Obviously the PGA this weekend and the playoffs will sway those currently on the fence. When you look at the players ranked 9th thru 12th, you currently have:

                                                9th: DeChambeau
                                                10th: Mickelson
                                                11th: Schaufelle
                                                12th: Kuchar

                                                Other notables:

                                                13th: Finau
                                                14th: Stanley
                                                15th: Kisner
                                                16th: Brian Harmon
                                                17th: Na
                                                18th: Wise (granted - I've not followed the tour much this year, but still... never heard of him!)
                                                19th: Zach Johnson
                                                20th Tiger Woods

                                                So you've got 4 picks. Let's assume that the Ryder Cup was next week. Who would your 4 captains picks be? Not an easy decision.

                                                    PA-PLAYA It's certainly not easy, but I would pick Tiger, Phil, DeChambeau, and Schaufelle. Tiger and Phil for being two all-time greats that can still complete, DeChambeau and Schaufelle due to the position they currently hold. I would not be happy to have to pick DeChambeau right now, but would do it because of where he's at.

                                                        johnnydoom

                                                        Although I think he'll get picked for interest/revenue-generating reasons, it shouldn't be based exclusively on his overall body of work. He undoubtedly is the 2nd greatest player of all-time. But if we're talking about finding four players who're playing the best golf currently, who gives your team the absolute best odds of winning - he currently doesn't meet that criteria, not based on his season vs the others ahead of him.

                                                        Now who knows... if he plays well this week, finishes top-25, perhaps top-10.... that could muddy the waters a bit. If he has a good run in the playoffs and advances beyond the first round... he's showing progress.

                                                        Furyk will be under a lot of pressure to pick him, they're good friends, played a lot of Ryder Cups together as playing partners.

                                                        Not saying he's earned his way onto the team, but I'll eat my sweaty golf cap if Furyk doesn't pick him.