Par4QC Damn women!
Might as well take this completely off track. Just saw this joke on another forum.
My son wanted to know what it's like to be married. I told him to leave me alone and when he did, I asked him why he was ignoring me.
If Tiger....
He will probably get to 19 Majors, if he stays healthy. The majors will be 14 on the "regular" tour and 5 on the Senior Tour. Some marketing weenie will come up with a term, like the Tiger Slam, for the accomplishment. If he could back off the driver swing just a tad he would probably score better. I finally realized that I am 72 not 52 anymore. Made a conscious decision to "keep it in play" instead of "how far can I hit the ball". Has resulted in waaay more fairways hit, more greens in regulation, less time in the woods and high rough and lower scores. If Tiger had followed that course of action, by my count his score at the Open would have 7 shots lower than what he ended with.
raggmann54 Backing off to stay in play is a nice theory, what guys who have never had power will never understand is he IS laying off. He is off it to the point where he can still give it a rip and keep everything in sync. Any more backing off and it’s going to get really fudged up and too much probably results in those hips not getting out of the way in time.
The thing is the DRIVER isn’t really where he made the biggest mistakes, he screwed up trying to be too cute and too conservative. If he had played to win, instead of not to lose, I think he would have won. That said, that flop shot was the end of him playing to win, then he went on the defensive and pissed it away. Had that shot worked or had he just played the simple shot and gotten to just go putt the damn ball, he may well have won too.
I believe what Tiger needs is a GREAT caddy in his corner again, one that can say to him “ just get it on the green, make your par and let’s go to the next hole with the lead.” One that can say “don’t change it up now, hit that driver off the left edge and we can make a birdie here.” Instead, I have to believe he has a “yes” man right now. He’s doing all the navigating, the yardage’s, the thoughts, he has to hit 200 shots and think through all of them, it’s not the best strategy. He needs somebody to take the mental load off a bit and let him focus on execution. When/if he gets that, I think he’s going to be great again, if he doesn’t, I don’t know if he can ever get “it” back
Like I said in my opening post, lots of if's. Despite the positive side of the scenario I presented, there's also the other side of the coin. He's remained winless over the past half decade, and certainly - there are valid reasons for that. Yet the longer he goes without winning, the more difficult it only gets, the more wear and tear he puts on his back.
All that aside, he's gotta win something over the next year. Given the nature of the surgeries he's needed to even be able to walk upright again, let alone rehab his back to be able to play again - he probably knows his career is living on borrowed time. That's yet another dynamic of pressure that is very real.
I remember watching McGwire's chase to beat Roger Maris' record of 61 homers in the latter part of of the '98 season. The closer he got to the end of the regular season - the greater the pressure became on each at-bat, in each and every game left.
Tiger now faces a similar type of pressure as it relates to his comeback, albeit more health-related than anything else. Assuming he does get another 3-4 seasons out of his back, that's somewhere between 60-80 golf tournaments, 12-16 majors left (assuming he plans to play 20 tournaments/season).
Not a lot of time.
That's a lot of walking, a lot of uneven lies being played, a lot of golf swings, a lot of bending over to putt. And that's not including the practice sessions and practice rounds being played during those seasons as well.
Just some perspective.
I never thought Tiger would ever consider the Champions Tour beyond his PGA Tour days, because I didn't think his drive and motivation would be the same competing against guys older than him. And although the majors on the Champions Tour do add to the overall competitive resume, (and not trying to take anything away from guys like Langer and Hale Irwin, mind you, who both achieved much more in their senior playing days as it relates to overall wins and majors) I think we all agree that they're not ranked half as significant as the tournaments won, the majors won, on the young guys tour.
But now there's another reason I don't think we'll see him competing beyond 50. Given his history of back problems, I don't think I'm going out on much of a limb here in assuming that he'd rather be able to manage his pain and have some quality of life in retirement versus risking that in exchange for competing for purses half the value, or majors that basically have half the value of those he won on the regular tour.
I could be wrong, but I just don't see him looking beyond a playing career at 46-47 years of age, if he can somehow make it that long.
Just my opinion, of course.
PS - some great posts above that also add to the discussion. This was never meant to be a thread to slam Tiger or point out his past indiscretions. Just an honest question about where he is now mentally and physically and if there's anything he could do in the next several months to take you off the fence regarding him winning another major.
I'm pretty sure Woods will be one of the captain's picks for the Ryder Cup, providing he wants to play. Even if he doesn't gain much in the standings between now and then -- he's close enough. Mickelson will get chosen as well.
He'll play the Masters and the Open as long as he's physically capable. As far as the Champions Tour -- he'll play the majors and a few other tournaments a year, like Nicklaus did, to satisfy sponsors and keep his face out there. And if he has a rookie year like a lot of guys do, winning several times, maybe he'll make more effort. In many ways, I see Woods as following Nicklaus' path -- if he doesn't think he can win, he won't be out there much. While I see Mickelson as emulating Palmer -- playing as much as he can because he really likes to and still thinks he can catch lightning in a bottle.
RobertThomas I believe it is taking everything he has to project to others that he has changed. Is he good for golf- absolutely! But I do not have to like him.
Never said you have to like anything or anybody. But, it's quite charitable to notice that he's been making the effort.
garyt1957 It doesn't fit his personality, imo.
For the life of me... Can we give our sports celebrities a little wiggle room?! What makes one think they know any individual based upon their public persona and what the media and/or tabloids present? Objectively, is that really any accurate way to judge another? Who would want to be judged this way? I would not.
Example: Perhaps you think you know me, from FGI, Golfdope, GolfBuzz? You don't. There is one member here who is a real life friend. He's knows I'm only half the asshole I am on the internet. Ask my adult children who know me longer and better. They'll tell you I'm only 25% the asshole I am on here (and that in most of those cases, they deserved it.) LOL
No, I'm not comparing myself to Tiger. (I'm more accurate off the tee.) I'm just referring to the fact that I don't know Tiger's personality.
professor He's knows I'm only half the asshole I am on the internet.
Why are we getting twice the asshole? LOL.
I agree with your point in general. Everyone looks bad under a microscope, and we're encouraged to look through it specifically when the bad stuff is happening. Tiger's home wrecking ways ARE pretty damning, and it's fair for people to hold him accountable for all of that. It's a level of badness far beyond not shaking somebody's hand.
Back to the main point, why are you admittedly double asshole (your words, I don't necessarily agree!) on the internet? Why is anyone?
5 days later
Well.... a weekend meltdown at a course where he's won on 8 prior occasions... played +6 over the weekend, level par for the tournament, finishing well back at T31st. He was only a handful of shots back of the lead heading into the weekend, and in reasonable position to make a run, especially on a course where he's enjoyed a lot of success over the years. Struggled with all aspects of his game on Saturday and Sunday. When he's hitting less than half the fairways off the tee and hitting half the greens in regulation... and the short-game and putting aren't able to clean up the scrappy play like it had the two days prior to the weekend - it's nowhere near good enough to contend with the players in the field who are playing well, regardless of whether it's the guy ranked 124th in the FedEx Cup standings or the guy ranked 1st, whether it's a course he's won on 8 times throughout his career or a course he's playing for the first time. Some might argue that he threw caution to the wind because he was trying to win Sunday, but he was so far out of the picture that it really didn't matter. He played poorly on Sunday, admittedly, and made no excuses.
It causes me to appreciate what @Par4QC said in the third post of the thread when he opined, And that makes him just as good as the next guy; not the Tiger of 10 yrs. ago......the next guy. Quite capable of winning any tournament. Same as......the next guy. Not sure why everyone keeps expecting to see 'that guy' from 10 yrs. ago. Gone. 10 yrs. ago.(I think
)
Very astute observation by one of our very own.
And then to see what can happen when one of the best players in the world who's won 3x this season, won 9 events total including a major since joining the tour back in 2014, kicks his game to a higher level? It really does put into perspective how difficult the challenge is for Tiger to get back into the winner's circle, even if he's healthy and playing well. Justin Thomas tapped into a higher gear on Sunday and cruised to victory without much stress. I don't think Tiger has that "higher gear" anymore. Or if he still does - we've yet to see it materialize. Maybe it's a bit too early to put any stock in that, or him for that matter. Like I said - he's gotta win something.
Time will tell.
Firestone's a good test of golf, a throwback to traditional tee-lined courses with tight driving angles. Given where the event has fallen there on schedule over the years also leads to scruffy lies and heavy rough. Sad to see it leave there for TPC Southwind in Memphis starting next season. Not that TPC isn't a worthy replacement venue, but that Firestone demanded a very high degree of decision making and course management. I'll miss seeing these guys play this course.
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PA-PLAYA Glad FedEx is spending money on the tour and very glad they'll be bringing an elite field to Memphis. But Memphis in August is very often an uncomfortable place to be outdoors. Bad enough to journey back from the UK links and cool weather to a parkland course with tree lined fairways and rough next to the greens like Firestone, but now the same type of course (I think TPC is a fabulous course) in the hotbox of Memphis in August? Ought to be fun watching the contract reps try to pick out shirt and pants combinations that look good when soaked with sweat.
johnnydoom Ought to be fun watching the contract reps try to pick out shirt and pants combinations that look good when soaked with sweat.
So you are saying no white?
LOL
Spuzz Well it might give some a chance to "inadvertently" show off the tattoos they've been keeping hidden.
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PA-PLAYA It causes me to appreciate what @Par4QC said in the third post of the thread when he opined, And that makes him just as good as the next guy; not the Tiger of 10 yrs. ago......the next guy. Quite capable of winning any tournament. Same as......the next guy. Not sure why everyone keeps expecting to see 'that guy' from 10 yrs. ago. Gone. 10 yrs. ago.(I think
Very astute observation by one of our very own.
Been saying this very thing for years. What plays a role and IMO a more significant role is that there are guys who hit it longer, straighter, and have better up and down ability now vs. when Tiger was in his prime (ie competition way better). He was that guy, and very clearly better than everyone else, now there are a handful of guys, maybe more. If we could transplant that guy in today's game it truly would be a marvel to watch vs. the new guys, who are simply following the old TW mold.
Trust me - it can be just as hot in Akron that time of year as it is in Memphis. Tree-lined course, no air circulating even if there is a breeze... just a hot, sweaty round of golf.
I wouldn't think of walking 72 holes in this weather this time of year. I'd croak.
I guess that's why they do what they do and why I sit at home in air-conditioning, eating chips and salsa and sipping on a Corona while watching them sweat their asses off. 
Yep. Experience means a lot, but there's no denying the youth factor. And these younger guys are ready to win no sooner than they get on tour, whereas it used to take at least 7-8 years for them to make that adjustment. That bellcurve is no longer in play.
Russell Henley is a good example, won his very first event start as a rookie. And the talent that has come after him has been no less impressive.
Between playing collegiate golf at very competitive universities and spending a year or so on the web.com tour - these guys don't need 10 years to figure it out. They don't even need half that time. They've performed under a high degree of stress, be it in college or the web.com, and are ready to hit the ground running when they earn the cards.
Remember when there was this fallout not all that long ago about Q-school and how players would no longer have that as a direct route to the tour, that they would have to earn their PGA Tour cards via the web.com?
A lot of older guys who cashed a lot of checks by just making the weekend cut and an occasional top-20 - they bitched like no tomorrow. They felt like they were being shortchanged. But today - you don't see many older guys playing like it used to be, guys taking up space just to cash in on a weekend cut. This change with how the tour decided to reroute the avenue to earn a tour card - it made things much more highly competitive. Younger guys who want to win, who have the game to win, vs the older players simply trying to hang on for 3-4 more years until they qualify for the Champions Tour.
Initially I wasn't for doing away with the traditional Q-school process... but it's bore fruit for the tour. They separated the wheat from the chaff and there is more parity in golf now than ever before.
Yet the best players still rise to the top much of the time.
PA-PLAYA makes the vets like Steve Stricker (there are others I'm sure but Steve comes to mind) high level of play so much more of an accomplishment. To be that good, for that long at a high level is amazing to me. He still competed well against the current crop. Seems to me this will be exception vs. the rule nowadays.
Agree. But then again - the competitive older guys aren't needing to go to Q-school. Strick played a very abbreviated schedule the last few years leading up to his Champions Tour eligibility, yet remained competitive.
The change wasn't designed to weed out guys like Steve Stricker, who still had game, and still has game. It was designed to weed out the one-hit wonders who'd made a living making well over half a million per year just simply making the weekends.
Strick could still easily gain his tour card next season if he wanted. He'd have to play a few more events, perhaps, but he's still competitive.
When was the last time Freddie Couples won a PGA Tour event?
Anybody?
The 2003 Shell Houston Open.
I love Freddie as much as the next guy because of his laid-back style, but I was in my early 30's when he last won on the young guys tour.
I think the changes they made have worked out very well.