Sterling: A Single-Length Iron Story

ZWExton Feel any difference between your 6-iron and 8-iron in a tradition VL set of clubs? I assume you do. That's 1 inch. So, the difference between your long irons and your short irons in a TLT build like I am describing would be like having the difference between your long and short irons feel like the difference between your 6-iron and 8-iron. That will suit many people. I won't bother expanding on that concept here -- go read just about any thread on SL clubs and you'll get the idea. (Hint: There are numerous posts on just about every one of those threads from people who don't want to hit their long irons at 8-iron length, and the discussion almost invariably moves toward a two-length set and often evolves into a discussion of a set of clubs that just doesn't have as much difference between the long- and short-irons.)

EDIT: BTW, in your original message are you talking about doing an MOI build, rather than a TLT build? I don't see how you used TLT to "establish proper heft." TLT is not related to heft, but rather guides club length progression (according to a series of TLT charts) that allows the the body to stay in a single athletic position for all clubs, rather than having to adjust to different positions, which the tradition 1/2" length progression demands.

Par4QC I don't recall asking or suggesting you quit, but do as you wish. While you're at it, feel free to hit your 3-wood off the deck; I really don't give a sh-t. (BTW, your comparison to a 105 yard SW doesn't make sense at all.)

Tinker Tinker I agree with you, but I also want to acknowledge the significant role that SL clubs play in solving the long-irons for many people.

While I agree that the greatest problem with long-irons is probably lofts, club length is a big consideration -- we hit shorter length irons in the centre of the club more consistently and control the club face better. These considerations are significant for achieving the ball speeds and launch angles needed to get these irons to perform consistently and to preserve yardage gaps. The shorter, SL clubs, I believe, are really effective for dealing with this challenge.

At the same time, like you say, this does not solve the greater issue of generating enough SS to get the lower lofts to spin the ball and optimize carry. In fact, the shorter shaft lengths even magnified this issue. Most people have difficulty launching irons that are lower than 25* and getting them to spin the ball enough to optimize carry (I believe Tom Wishon even says 27 degrees). That difficulty increases as swing speed decreases. When I was younger, the 4-iron had a loft of 24 degrees, so it was an iron "on the bubble." If you had the swing speed, you could hit it pretty well, but it was more "iffy" than the 27-degree 5-iron. If you didn't have the SS, it became inconsistent and a problem club. The 21-degree 3-iron (and even worse, the 18 degree 2-irons) were trouble for almost everyone.

As you say, now, in the era of 20/21 degree 4-irons, these have become problem clubs for most people and they are the reason that hybrids and FW come into play for many/most people at this loft. Many people are trying to hit a 4-iron when they would be better off hitting one of these alternative clubs, or just hitting the 5-iron into a good position, rather than hitting 80% of their 4-irons into some kind of problem. (Rich Hunt and Mark Broadie's work in regard to the stats of scoring have interesting implications in this respect.) This is the reason I made the earlier comment that a 175-yard carry with a 4-iron probably indicates a slower swing speed than is necessary to use this club consistently well.

Sorry for the hijacked thread.

ZWExton I can totally believe that. I have a friend for whom I built a set of Pinhawks. His iron game improved so dramatically that he couldn't believe it. Every time we played he would hit several nice mid- and long-irons pretty tight to pins. He said to me, "I don't just like these irons, I LOVE these irons."

(Funny/Odd ending to that story, though, is that he offered to trade me straight across for his Adams irons and I told he that I wasn't interested and wanted $250 for the Pinhawks (that was a great deal since they had upgraded graphite shafts that I had got a deal on -- the $250 was my cost). He got a bit pissed off that I wouldn't take the trade and said that he'd have to think about them. The next week he dropped the Pinhawks off at my place after using them for several months and told me that he had bought a set of demo Pings, which he had always wanted to own. He paid $1000! Now he's back struggling with his irons and the driver he bought as part of the same deal is in his closet. Is it wrong that I savour his struggles a bit? (Not really -- I actually hate seeing him struggle.)

EDIT/ADD-ON: Oh yeah, and in one year two of his Ping irons have snapped at the hosel. Ping has replaced both, but apparently this last replacement was "a favour" to the pro he bought them from. They won't be replacing any others (or so he was told).

JeffTilley

Wishon is coming out with SL Fairways? LOL

DC300

The balance point isnt going to move that much if i trim a shaft 1/2 or 3/4 inch , especially with the clubs being same length and total weight. outside of perhaps a slightly softer feel im not likely to be able to detect any difference , not that sensitive to such changes. i might have to toy with things but i typically like stiffer shafts in my wedges , normal in mid and softer in long irons. Im not really as concerned with feel in this build as i am with consistency of stance , position and swing plane.