you can undertip trim the long iron shafts to increase their tip flex and launch will be higher

    kelco9 However, if you are only hitting your 4-iron 175, I don't think you should be carrying a 4-iron of any length. That person doesn't really have the swing speed to make it effective.

    Not a fair evaluation. That would be like saying if a person can only hit their SW 105, they should not have one. Or a 7i 145. etc........

    Allowing 10 yds. per club, that person's 6i would be around 155. That was the max for me wayyyyy back when. (or 8 yrs. ago) I once hit a 3i 182 and nearly pissed myself!!

    My grandson can hit his 8i @ 200. I can hit mine (maybe) 125. I do carry hybrids. For MY specific yardages. And none of those yardages go up to 175. That would be my FW club.

    I should quit, eh????

    Thank You for the advice, but I'll carry any damn club I desire. And hit it as far as I possibly can.(on occasion)

        kelco9 What do you think that 1/8th of an inch between clubs does for you? Is it a mental/confidence thing?

            ZWExton Feel any difference between your 6-iron and 8-iron in a tradition VL set of clubs? I assume you do. That's 1 inch. So, the difference between your long irons and your short irons in a TLT build like I am describing would be like having the difference between your long and short irons feel like the difference between your 6-iron and 8-iron. That will suit many people. I won't bother expanding on that concept here -- go read just about any thread on SL clubs and you'll get the idea. (Hint: There are numerous posts on just about every one of those threads from people who don't want to hit their long irons at 8-iron length, and the discussion almost invariably moves toward a two-length set and often evolves into a discussion of a set of clubs that just doesn't have as much difference between the long- and short-irons.)

            EDIT: BTW, in your original message are you talking about doing an MOI build, rather than a TLT build? I don't see how you used TLT to "establish proper heft." TLT is not related to heft, but rather guides club length progression (according to a series of TLT charts) that allows the the body to stay in a single athletic position for all clubs, rather than having to adjust to different positions, which the tradition 1/2" length progression demands.

              Par4QC I don't recall asking or suggesting you quit, but do as you wish. While you're at it, feel free to hit your 3-wood off the deck; I really don't give a sh-t. (BTW, your comparison to a 105 yard SW doesn't make sense at all.)

                I think the lack of loft in traditional length irons has as much or more to do with players inability to hit them than the added length. This whole no long iron hybrid thing started when manufacturers started making standard irons longer and flatter . If you can hit a modern five iron you are hitting a four iron the number just changed to sell to players ego.

                  Tinker Sterling lofts are not necessarily comparable either - due to the lengths being beings same, loft gaps are stretched quite a bit more for proper gapping. The 4i is 19*! You can imagine why it is not recommended for golfers who lack significant power. Originally I don't believe there even was a 4i, just a 5i and 5h. I am fortunate to be young and strong.

                  I actually got a 5h and 6i-SW set to transition my wife to. The 4i would be about as effective as a putter for her.

                      19 is a one iron. All hybrids are is long irons with wide soles and a crown to cover the cavity. The lower center of gravity helps get the ball up but the wide sole and bulky head limit shot making ability.

                        Tinker Indeed. I'd prefer that my irons have lofts on the bottom, but I guess. 4 5 6 is simpler in that I know my 4 goes a little farther and a little lower than my 5, my 6 goes a little shorter and a little higher, etc.

                        When people ask me what club I hit on a hole I find it annoying - what difference could it make to them? My 8 probably isn't your 8, and you are not me.

                          ZWExton Originally I don't believe there even was a 4i, just a 5i and 5h. I am fortunate to be young and strong.

                          Correct. My Sterling set includes a 5i and a 5h. I find the 5h easier for me to hit, but I am 67.

                            Tinker Tinker I agree with you, but I also want to acknowledge the significant role that SL clubs play in solving the long-irons for many people.

                            While I agree that the greatest problem with long-irons is probably lofts, club length is a big consideration -- we hit shorter length irons in the centre of the club more consistently and control the club face better. These considerations are significant for achieving the ball speeds and launch angles needed to get these irons to perform consistently and to preserve yardage gaps. The shorter, SL clubs, I believe, are really effective for dealing with this challenge.

                            At the same time, like you say, this does not solve the greater issue of generating enough SS to get the lower lofts to spin the ball and optimize carry. In fact, the shorter shaft lengths even magnified this issue. Most people have difficulty launching irons that are lower than 25* and getting them to spin the ball enough to optimize carry (I believe Tom Wishon even says 27 degrees). That difficulty increases as swing speed decreases. When I was younger, the 4-iron had a loft of 24 degrees, so it was an iron "on the bubble." If you had the swing speed, you could hit it pretty well, but it was more "iffy" than the 27-degree 5-iron. If you didn't have the SS, it became inconsistent and a problem club. The 21-degree 3-iron (and even worse, the 18 degree 2-irons) were trouble for almost everyone.

                            As you say, now, in the era of 20/21 degree 4-irons, these have become problem clubs for most people and they are the reason that hybrids and FW come into play for many/most people at this loft. Many people are trying to hit a 4-iron when they would be better off hitting one of these alternative clubs, or just hitting the 5-iron into a good position, rather than hitting 80% of their 4-irons into some kind of problem. (Rich Hunt and Mark Broadie's work in regard to the stats of scoring have interesting implications in this respect.) This is the reason I made the earlier comment that a 175-yard carry with a 4-iron probably indicates a slower swing speed than is necessary to use this club consistently well.

                            Sorry for the hijacked thread.

                                  ZWExton A 1 inch TLT build does not result in 1/8" between irons. In a TLT build, the 8 and 9-irons would probably be a little longer than in a traditional VL progression. I believe Dan then built the wedges to the same length as the 9 iron. The other irons would progress in length, but not necessarily by the same amount for each club. These lengths would be determined by the TLT series that you were building to. I do believe you are correct, however, in saying that such a build would require a larger than usual lie adjustment.

                                    kelco9 Total club length has made such a huge difference for me in the low loft irons. I've hit more great shots with the Sterling 4, 5, 6 than I did with my VL 6i, let alone the 5 and 4. It feels so easy, and like you said - center face contact improves results dramatically, and that's easier with a short club.

                                        Side comment,,,,the Sterling irons are beautifully crafted. Pure eye candy. The catalog pics do them NO justice.

                                        ZWExton I can totally believe that. I have a friend for whom I built a set of Pinhawks. His iron game improved so dramatically that he couldn't believe it. Every time we played he would hit several nice mid- and long-irons pretty tight to pins. He said to me, "I don't just like these irons, I LOVE these irons."

                                        (Funny/Odd ending to that story, though, is that he offered to trade me straight across for his Adams irons and I told he that I wasn't interested and wanted $250 for the Pinhawks (that was a great deal since they had upgraded graphite shafts that I had got a deal on -- the $250 was my cost). He got a bit pissed off that I wouldn't take the trade and said that he'd have to think about them. The next week he dropped the Pinhawks off at my place after using them for several months and told me that he had bought a set of demo Pings, which he had always wanted to own. He paid $1000! Now he's back struggling with his irons and the driver he bought as part of the same deal is in his closet. Is it wrong that I savour his struggles a bit? 🙂 (Not really -- I actually hate seeing him struggle.)

                                        EDIT/ADD-ON: Oh yeah, and in one year two of his Ping irons have snapped at the hosel. Ping has replaced both, but apparently this last replacement was "a favour" to the pro he bought them from. They won't be replacing any others (or so he was told).

                                          ValueGolf That does seem wild, but I'd try one. Can't be iron length though, right? Maybe a 3/5/7 option all made to be played at 40" or something.

                                              ZWExton I think that’s chuckling because Valu Golf has had them out for months.

                                                Weirfan @ValueGolf has advised against changing your tip trim, presumably because it would potentially alter the balance point and thereby ruin the one feel approach. I’m not sure if I would notice or not, but I suppose it’s possible.

                                                    DC300

                                                    The balance point isnt going to move that much if i trim a shaft 1/2 or 3/4 inch , especially with the clubs being same length and total weight. outside of perhaps a slightly softer feel im not likely to be able to detect any difference , not that sensitive to such changes. i might have to toy with things but i typically like stiffer shafts in my wedges , normal in mid and softer in long irons. Im not really as concerned with feel in this build as i am with consistency of stance , position and swing plane.