JeffTilley Seems you're feeling rather put upon and defensive. Kinda invalidates your earlier apology for your defensive remarks.
You still did not attempt to quantify your comment about 'minimal at best'.
Now, johnnydoom, he made an attempt by stating he "can't agree that any siginificant block voted against its own self interest" (not answering the question then, changing the subject.
You did not even attempt to clarify your interpretation of what media sources you call msm have significantly biased bents. Why do you dodge these questions and there follow-ups? Can you provide this clarity? If my reasoning is so flawed how is it you can't seem to address that?
Reading Comprehension
JeffTilley Not a subscriber so, I couldn't read the whole commentary.
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A couple of comments and request for clarification: Is this - that of which Senator McCain speaks - the populist nationalism of which several members here endorse, want to perpetuate and perpetrate? If so, how'd y'all come so far from this guy being "your" candidate that ran against (and lost) to the allegedly hideous Obama?! AND, is ABC an example of your biased mainstream media?!
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professor7 hours ago
JeffTilley Seems you're feeling rather put upon and defensive. Kinda invalidates your earlier apology for your defensive remarks.
Stop with the poking, prodding, and reading between the lines. You know what bias I speak of, liberal bias. I know you're not that ignorant. And I don't support Russian interference. Don't mistake me again, and never attempt to put words where there are none. And trust me on this-I will never apologize to you again.
John McCain's a rino. I stopped paying attention to him years ago. I understand why liberals love him and conservatives don't. Do you? We know why he lost. Do you know why HRC lost? Is the article you initially listed just another excuse?
Now, stop deflecting and answer what all here want to hear-your take on the article you initially posted. We wait with bated breath..........
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WSJ article............
By Mark Penn
The fake news about fake news is practically endless. Americans worried about Russia’s influence in the 2016 election have seized on a handful of Facebook ads—as though there weren’t also three 90-minute debates, two televised party conventions, and $2.4 billion spent on last year’s campaign. The danger is that bending facts to fit the Russia story line may nudge Washington into needlessly and recklessly regulating the internet and curtailing basic freedoms.
After an extensive review, Facebook has identified $100,000 of ads that came from accounts associated with Russia. Assume for the sake of argument that Vladimir Putin personally authorized this expenditure. Given its divisive nature, the campaign could be dubbed “From Russia, With Hate”—except it would make for a disappointing James Bond movie.
Analyzing the pattern of expenditures, and doing some back-of-the-envelope math, it’s clear this was no devilishly effective plot. Facebook says 56% of the ads ran after the election, reducing the tally that could have influenced the result to about $44,000. It also turns out the ads were not confined to swing states but also shown in places like New York, California and Texas. Supposing half the ads went to swing states brings the total down to $22,000.
Facebook also counted ads as early as June 2015. Assuming they were evenly spread and we want only those that ran the year of the election, that knocks it down to $13,000. Most of the ads did not solicit support for a candidate and carried messages on issues like racism, immigration and guns. The actual electioneering then amounts to about $6,500.
Now look at the bigger picture. Every day, Americans see hundreds of ads on TV and radio, in newspapers and magazines, on billboards and smartphones. North Americans post to Facebook something like a billion times a day, and during the election many of those messages were about politics. Facebook typically runs about $40 million worth of advertising a day in North America.
Then consider the scale of American presidential elections. Hillary Clinton’s total campaign budget, including associated committees, was $1.4 billion. Mr. Trump and his allies had about $1 billion. Even a full $100,000 of Russian ads would have erased just 0.025% of Hillary’s financial advantage. In the last week of the campaign alone, Mrs. Clinton’s super PAC dumped $6 million in ads into Florida, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
I have 40 years of experience in politics, and this Russian ad buy, mostly after the election anyway, simply does not add up to a carefully targeted campaign to move voters. It takes tens of millions of dollars to deliver meaningful messages to the contested portion of the electorate. Converting someone who voted for the other party last time is an enormously difficult task. Swing voters in states like Ohio or Florida are typically barraged with 50% or more of a campaign’s budget. Try watching TV in those states the week before an election and you will see how jammed the airwaves are.
No one wants foreign governments meddling in American elections. In 1996, the Chinese government had the “China plan” and pumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into Bill Clinton’s re-election campaign. There were congressional investigations, and several fundraisers were prosecuted, but Attorney General Janet Reno rejected calls for an independent counsel. Campaigns tightened up their donor-validation procedures, and life moved on. The same is called for here. Internet companies should improve their screening of electioneering ads, impose clearer standards on all ads, and do a better job weeding out phony accounts.
Millions of taxpayer dollars have probably been spent already poring over that $100,000 of Facebook ads. Better to keep it all in perspective, as everyone did in 1996. The only way Russia will get its money’s worth is if Washington overreacts and narrows the very freedoms that make America different in the first place.
Mr. Penn, managing director of the Stagwell Group, was chief strategist on Bill Clinton’s 1996 presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton’s 2000 Senate campaign, and Mrs. Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign.
professor There's little need in having a discussion. Your viewpoint is that voters were duped into voting for Trump, my view is that voters chose the only available alternative (at national election time) to the strategy that preceded. Mine is based upon questions answered by actual voters, yours is based upon conjecture by the Atlantic based on strategic placement of dark news on social media. Could the voters be lying? -possible, could the conjecture from the Atlantic be wrong? - possible.
JeffTilley
I'll do you one better. I will respond - without personal attack, without authoritarianism 'don't ever put words in my mouth again', and I will read the lines. Seems you're unwilling to specify or quantify. Whatever floats your boat. It's just called substantiation.
So, I believe there is media bias. How much? That's hard for me to say. I believe Fox News is reprehensible and unintelligible. I occasionally listen to Rush Limbaugh on the radio just for some competition with Philly Sports Talk - both being mostly ridiculous but, it's good to know how others think, what they're 'fed', and try and comprehend how.
While I don't watch mainstream media - which for me would be ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS (traditionally) and might (?) now include CNN, MSN - MSNBC? See, I'm not really sure and that's why I'd requested you clarify. But, you're seemingly too agitated (I'm just speculating - not attempting to put words in your mouth). If I want "news" that I feel is somewhat objective (knowing full well that to any 100% extent, there is no such animal), I prefer NPR/PBS, BBC or at 11 p.m. EST, there's NHK World TV (a Japanese-PBS partnership). I believe the latter two to be less influenced by 'corporate money'. And, I don't think the other mainstream media outlets I mentioned (the traditional ones) are nearly so biased as Fox. So, there are my thoughts and opinions.
My take on the article I posted about Facebook influencing? I think Mr. Trump and his cronies/family members have already admitted their guilt and complicity with the Russians. I believe Hillary really screwed the pooch in her presentation of self, for starters. I find her to be 'shrew-like' (and, I didn't care for her husband either). Nonetheless, I believe they're both brighter, more learned, and more diplomatic than our current POTUS. I believe, in all the investigations of Hillary's emails, had she been messing with Facebook as had the Trump campaign, it would have hit the news - all the news.
Anything else?
Possible you might engage in a discussion?
johnnydoom
"...Mine is based upon questions answered by actual voters..."
What does that mean, your view ("mine")? Your view is based upon "questions answered by actual voters"? What questions?
I honestly do not know what this quoted statement means - infers? If my viewpoint was "that voters were duped into voting for Trump", you then mean what by "the strategy that preceded"? Whose strategy?
I understand that Trump was the winner of the republican primary and that party's candidate for POTUS.
Are you talking about the Romney strategy? The McCain strategy?
Please, for the love of God, don't tell me you're referring to the Obama 'strategy'.
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This post belongs over here as well.
What all this really indicates is we're now in a post fact based world. The late Senator Patrick Moynihan's famous quote 'that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts' is certainly not something the current occupier of the Whitehouse lives by.
Just the opposite actually.
The old adage that you get the government that you deserve is true. An ignorant electorate / citizenry thinks the Presidency is an entry level position. Since they know nothing beyond bumper sticker slogans, they elected an ignorant person who is in their own self image.
In response to P.J. O'Rourke's question (book titled) "How the hell did this happen?" Stupid is as stupid does.
I'd love to see your proof of collusion. And me agitated? There you go again. Perhaps you should grow up?
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professor Of course it was president Obama's strategy that I was referring to. That was the preceding administration.
JeffTilley Personal attack. No substance.
Later...
johnnydoom Pardon me. Just wanted to be clear hence, the request for clarification. I allowed for the possibility that you were reflecting on prior Republican party candidates.
So, thanks for the answer. It is now clear that you are on board with the Trump agenda. Ooops, he has no agenda of his own, just to tear at anything Obama accomplished. More of and worse yet, of the same.
You did however, fail to answer my question.
Quoting you to clarify: "...my view........ Mine (view) is based upon questions answered by actual voters..."
What questions (and answers) by actual voters shaped your view?
Personal attack? No, that was merely an observation. But you best go see a dermatologist about that thin skin. That was just an observation, too.
professor I did answer your question. It is in my post above (about #25), voter exit polls on the day of the presidential election. Also, and I'm very sure this will make you feel much better - I voted for Cruz in the primary election. But yes, I am on board with much of the president's agenda.
johnnydoom Got it. Found the post you're referring to. Thanks. I've said my piece on a number of Trump voters who'll regret they endorsed him.
A completely different subject but it's, truly beyond my comprehension that most don't already.
Regardless, we are now way off-topic. I believe the Facebook influence could have been significant.
professor A completely different subject but it's, truly beyond my comprehension that most don't already.
The conservatives out here can't comprehend how the entire lot of Soetoro supporters can't regret supporting him. It's the difference in ideology. Conservatives (true conservatives) want individual liberty. Socialists like Barry Soetoro and his supporters want government control of everyone's lives.
rsvman ... and Barry Soetoro has proven himself to be a complete hoax upon the U.S. The sheeple elected him and he did as much damage as he could while his tyrannical regime was at the helm.