A thought that seems relevant in this context: How much money does an individual need before getting more becomes effectively meaningless?

Most of the top players could retire today, never work another day in their life and have the financial resources to live very comfortably. Even mid-level tour players make life-changing amounts of money - for example, Kevin Na has been on Tour for quite a few years, winning a few tournaments but never really being one of the best players at any time, and he's earned more than $35m in prize money. Yes, there are significant expenses involved in playing on tour, but he'll also have sponsorship money coming in. Na won't be getting anything like the 9-figure sums that are reported as being paid to some of the bigger names to sign up with LIV, but it's likely that he'll have received something of the order of at least a couple of good years of Tour earnings, with any prize money in addition to this - a significant amount of money, yes, but does it make any practical difference to the life that he leads?

    “I grew up my entire life wanting to play the PGA Tour, wanting to break records, make history, play Presidents Cups, play Ryder Cups. The fact that things like that could potentially get hurt because of some of the people that are leaving, and if more go, it’s just sad. It’s really no other way to say it.”
    Justin Thomas

    That's all well and good. However, it is not the thoughts of all the kids, unless planted in their minds by elders.
    How would you like to have grown up thinking about all of those things, along with being able to have the opportunity to be making mega-millions of money, while 'enjoying' the accomplishment of just getting there?

    But, would the elders have 'brainwashed' you, about where the money was coming from, instead of allowing you to decide, when/if you got there?

    What if you have the chance to earn those $$$, AND all the awards, at the same time? Without having to kiss sponsors asses, without having to do all the promotions/advertising, etc.. IOW, do your work/play the game, collect money/awards, AND still be able to have a life outside all that, of your own?

    The PGA only has issue as to where the money is coming from, (and maybe more so, a dislike of Greg Norman), nothing more than that. And that is wrong. THAT...is telling people what to think!!!

    Sneakylong I think you either have integrity or you don't. And if you have a price on your integrity then you really never had any to begin with.

    It sounds like you have walked a mile in everyone else's shoes and can judge them all. I have not.

        MartinD Who decides enough money is enough? Most PGA players in the top 20 make more in a year then any of us make in a lifetime. But it takes big money to maintain a big lifestyle. Taxes on their ( sometimes multiple) houses can be $50k + a year.
        Maintenance on said houses, keeping a private jet in the air, etc.
        Who am I to tell them how much they need?

            johnnydoom

            I do agree that the likes of Rory, Justin and Jordon etc. have more leverage than they've ever had before. Now is the time to exercise that leverage and seek whatever positive change they'd like to see on the PGA Tour from a players perspective.

            And for the PGA Tour to make whatever changes they need to in order to adapt to the new golf landscape. Because as we've seen the world has a short attention span. Look at the war in Ukraine. It no longer leads the news broadcasts.

            If Norman's claims that the Saudi's are in this for decades prove true, then there may come a time when the outrage will subside and LIV Golf will become normalized in the world of golf.

            So, if LIV proves to be a long term disruption, you would think the PGA Tour will have to adapt to compete. Anyone who's predicting how this all pans out is guessing.

            One guy here comes to mind. He told me years ago to get on the golf component bus or get run over by it. Last I saw of that bus it was broke down on the side of the road. Must be pretty rusted out by now. lol

            Not a good track record on prognosticating. lol

              garyt1957 But it takes big money to 'make' a big lifestyle.

              😉Even when it's not a necessity of/in life.

                  Par4QC who decides what's a necessity? Once you've had nice things you don't want to give them up. I lead a very frugal life. But I play golf and that's certainly not a necessity. I don't want someone telling me I shouldn't waste money on golf

                      KCee It sounds like you have walked a mile in everyone else's shoes and can judge them all. I have not.

                      Not at all. But I do have the ability to empathize and agree with those who speak out against what the Saudi's are attempting to do by using sports to cleanse their history on human rights abuses and other atrocities.

                      Phil said that he empathized with those who had strong feelings regarding the same issues. But his actions speak differently. So yeah, I have no problem judging them. Kind of easy actually. Pretty black and white for me.

                        garyt1957 I'm saying 'tons of money' is not a necessity. But, even if you have tons, it is not necessary to have those things these guys have.

                        garyt1957 Once you've had nice things you don't want to give them up.

                        So, not only were these guys taught the game, they were spoiled beyond reason. But, so many of them tell of what their parents gave up to get them there. So, why the need for such 'nice things', if you did not grow up that way/were taught that way?

                        Hell, I cannot even afford to golf now. Yet I will.

                            KCee I'm sure Sneakylong would be happy to provide judgement

                            in·teg·ri·ty
                            /inˈteɡrədē/
                            noun
                            1.
                            the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness:

                            Using this definition the LIV golfers fall well short. So an easy call for me to judge.

                                Sneakylong mor·al
                                [ˈmôrəl]
                                ADJECTIVE

                                1. concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character:
                                  "the moral dimensions of medical intervention" · [more]
                                  synonyms:
                                  virtuous · good · righteous · upright · upstanding · high-minded · [more]

                                2. holding or manifesting high principles for proper conduct:
                                  "he prides himself on being a highly moral and ethical person"
                                  synonyms:
                                  virtuous · good · righteous · upright · upstanding · high-minded · [more]

                                Hopefully, you are #2 and not making judgment(#1).

                                  MartinD How much money does an individual need before getting more becomes effectively meaningless?

                                  Yes. I'm most bothered by the lack of honesty. Just admit you're selling out for the payday. Phil accuses the PGA of "obnoxious greed" and then does this? Growing the game? 😂 Douchenozzle Twat Wankers!

                                    No nation, including our own, has a squeaky clean history of honoring the humane treatment of other human beings.

                                    So from that standpoint, we (the US) are certainly not miles ahead of everyone else as it relates to truly caring that much about other people, here at home or the world over. So far be it from us to claim such a moral high ground that our own history suggests a dire struggle to attain.

                                    How quickly we forget that we were the very ones who armed and supported the early remnants of what would later become the same terrorist organization that brought the towers down in NY on 9/11!

                                    If that’s the standard, that no country should have business interests with other nations due to their history of lack of human compassion… no country would be doing business with another country.

                                    (Except for maybe Canada 😁)

                                    My beef with what these spoiled brats on the PGA tour are doing is that they’re showing little to no gratitude or appreciation whatsoever for the very organization that gave them everything they could ever want. I’m not saying the tour hasn’t capitalized on the success of their players. They have. But they’ve also donated a lot of money to local charities and causes that have allowed other helpful organizations to make a huge difference in the lives of those less fortunate.

                                    It is their right, however. And it is also within our rights to point out the greed and self-seeking agendas of those who express such a lack of gratitude for what they have been given.

                                    $.02

                                      garyt1957 Who decides enough money is enough? Most PGA players in the top 20 make more in a year then any of us make in a lifetime. But it takes big money to maintain a big lifestyle. Taxes on their ( sometimes multiple) houses can be $50k + a year.
                                      Maintenance on said houses, keeping a private jet in the air, etc.
                                      Who am I to tell them how much they need?

                                      I think that you're missing the point that I was trying to make - for any individual, no matter their circumstances, there will be a level of wealth where any additional money is irrelevant in terms of how it affects their way of life. I'm not making a judgement on any individual, or what they choose to do with the assets available to them.

                                          PA-PLAYA It is their right, however. And it is also within our rights to point out the greed and self-seeking agendas of those who express such a lack of gratitude for what they have been given

                                          I agree except for the word "given". I would say "earned" instead.
                                          Unless, the arrangement between the PGA Tour and it's members/employees/independent contractors has not been mutually beneficial on a 50-50 basis. If that is not so, then the players are also the beneficiaries of the PGA "charities" and have indeed been "given" their standing in golf.

                                          Also, I have only seen big mouth Phil talk negatively about the PGA.
                                          Most of the other players have expressed "disappointment" and whatnot, but have not resorted to name calling.
                                          The name calling, derogatory statements and insults have all come from the PGA and it's loyal subjects.
                                          It's very telling, imo.

                                              PA-PLAYA So far be it from us to claim such a moral high ground that our own history suggests a dire struggle to attain.

                                              History does show that we have always tried to expand human rights though. You're correct it has not been easy. Pretty damn hard actually. Like I said before sometimes it seems like it's one step forward and two steps backward.

                                              But whether it be the fight to free people from subjugation, women's suffrage movement, civil / voting rights, workers rights, women's reproductive rights, the right to marry interracially, gay marriage rights etc..

                                              We have in the end moved towards expanding human rights. And tried to make equality a real thing. It's been one hell of a struggle to live up to the promise of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for everyone in this country though.

                                              The difference again is that we have historically tried and despite periods of setbacks we keep fighting in favor of expanding human rights. And once a right is taken away it can take a long time to get those rights back.

                                              In the case of reconstruction after we pulled federal troops out of the south in the late 1870's and reconstruction ended. It took close to 100 years to get those civil / human rights back for the people affected in the south.

                                              Our history is full of terrible human rights abuses and atrocities. But we acknowledge them and learn from them and hopefully become better knowing our own history.

                                              This is not the case in Saudi Arabia. Instead of making the choice to expand human rights and stop the atrocities they've decided to try and have their cake and eat it too.

                                              They're trying to deceive everyone by using sports to appear to be what they are not. So there's a big difference between us and them regarding human rights. We've constantly kept trying to further human rights and they haven't.