Par4QC

Last I saw this was a golf forum. Not knowing much about Bobby Jones would be like being in a baseball forum and not knowing much about Babe Ruth.😕

Jones was right up their with the top sports stars of the 1920’s. I’ll help you out a little. Lol

http://heritage20s.weebly.com/sports.html

And we can agree to disagree on legacy. That’s the only reason people (evidently with the exception of you) know about Bobby Jones.

Jones was the most successful amateur golfer. He was a lawyer and mechanical engineer as well. You do know he was the founder of the Masters.😉

Read about him. Quite a legacy.

https://www.bobbyjoneslinks.com/immortal-bobby-jones

      Headline in the N.Y. Times on August 20, 1968:

      "Touring Golfers Set Up Own Organization and Complete Split With P.G.A.; BREAK TO AFFECT TV, PRIZE MONEY Pros Agree Not to Boycott 10 Major Events Left on Tour Slate This Year"

      By Lincoln A. Werden

      Aug. 20, 1968

      Seems Professional Golf has been in a similar situation before...The Touring Pros were not happy with the cut of the pie they were receiving and formed their own organization....Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer among the dissidents...

      @"Sneakylong"#p263659 so you are comparing Bobby Jones to Cam Smith going to play on the LIV Tour? Quite a Stretch.

      I wonder how Bobby Jones felt about Pro golf? Maybe he saw pro golf as the end of the game and look how that has worked out.

      I would rather have my Legacy than Tiger Woods legacy.

        Sneakylong Messin' with ya. I know who Bobby Jones is. 😅

        There is a fella that works in the local golf store and his name is also Bobby Jones. I asked him several years ago if he got a lot of razzing. He said he is actually 1 of his descendants!
        You should see this Bobby play. Really bad diabetic, prosthetic legs(both), and can play circles around most of us. must run in the family.

          Sneakylong And we can agree to disagree on legacy. That’s the only reason people (evidently with the exception of you) know about Bobby Jones.

          I know the golf legacy of Bobby Jones. I don't know anything about how he earned his money or where it came from. His current humanitarian legacy in the context of this thread (which I don't care about since I didn't know the actual man) would be as the founder of a club that continued racist and sexist membership policies long after his passing.

              johnnydoom Well played. I am surprised that someone as intellectually advanced as sneaky would idolize a misogynist and racist.

                Subsonic

                Where the hell are you getting that I’m comparing Cam Smith going to LIV to Bobby Jones? 🙄

                Once again, I have to speculate on what you’re referring to. I assume it’s about legacy.

                Let me just say this. I was a huge Boston Celtics fan growing up in the 1960’s. Back then many players had offseason jobs. They weren’t playing for a lot of money. The money wasn’t that great.

                They were playing to win championships. And they won everyone in the 60’s except for 1967. That’s their legacy. Champions.

                I went to Celtics great Sam Jones’s basketball camp as a kid in 1970. Sam Jones was a great player and a great person. He and the other Celtic players from those teams were very proud of their accomplishments. I know because I heard them talk about it and saw it first hand.

                Legacy is important to many professional athletes. Believe it or not that’s what lives on. You’ll here the cliché when they win a championship. ‘They can’t ever take that away from you.’

                Nobody is going to take that away from anyone. Lol. What they’re really saying is they’ll always be remembered as champions.

                    Sneakylong Your challenge is recognizing that times change. Your arguments wold be both more relevant and sound if you could find something more recent than 50 years ago.

                    You are using the Legacy argument and suggesting that people playing in the LIV Tour are forfeiting their Legacy in some way. Maybe I am smarter than I think but I will leave that for you to judge as I doubt it.

                    The basketball of the 60s is dead too. Have you watched an NBA game in the last 10 years? Times change and you need to keep up.

                        Sneakylong Believe it or not that’s what lives on.

                        I absolutely believe it. But the legacy will be the accomplishments. Don't know anything about the personal lives of the old Celtics, just that they were a basketball dynasty.

                        Unless some terrorist faction turns profit made from the LIV Tour into a nuclear bomb and blow up a big city, no one is going to care in the future whether or not these guys played for a different league. Phil is still a 6 time major winner, Brooks is still a 4 time major winner, Bryson, Henrik, Patrick, and Cam are all still major winners.

                            Subsonic

                            Times change, but human nature doesn’t. 😉 Why do you think Tom Brady is still playing football at 45? For the money? Lol

                            His wife makes way more than he does. He’s playing for the love of football and to win championships. Same with all the greats. Doesn’t matter what era.

                                johnnydoom

                                But all those mentioned risk not having the chance to add to their Majors. Their legacy may be frozen with an asterisk. That’s the choice they made.

                                LIV Tournaments will never be held in the same regard as the Majors.

                                    Sneakylong That's a tradeoff they were willing to make. Why an asterisk? Their majors were won legitimately. The argument people here have been making is that they are throwing their legacies away. The thing all of them will most likely be remembered for is what they've won. If the PGA Tour goes down that is on Monahan's legacy, not the players.

                                      Sneakylong Your argument is flawed. Tom CAN do it because he has the money and if it was about legacy he would have stayed with the Patriots. His time with the Bucs has did little to enhance his legacy. Would have been better to leave at the top of his game with the Pats. I am amazed that you know WHY Tom Brady plays football. If it was all about Legacy ol Tom Terrific should play for free.

                                      Professional sports is all about the money. That is why they are professionals. In fact, that is what makes you forfeit your amateur status in most sports. Money.

                                      I do find your view inspiring and uplifting even if misguided and wrong. I always have thought of you as a touch on the pragmatic side so all of this Legacy talk from you is refreshing.

                                          Legacy....

                                          noun, plural leg·a·cies.
                                          Law. a gift of property, especially personal property, as money, by will; a bequest.
                                          anything handed down from the past, as from an ancestor or predecessor:
                                          the legacy of ancient Rome.
                                          an applicant to or student at a school that was attended by his or her parent.
                                          Obsolete. the office, function, or commission of a legate.
                                          adjective
                                          of or relating to old or outdated computer hardware, software, or data that, while still functional, does not work well with up-to-date systems.

                                          leg·a·cy
                                          NOUN
                                          an amount of money or property left to someone in a will:

                                          legacy
                                          noun [ C ]
                                          US /ˈleɡ.ə.si/ UK /ˈleɡ.ə.si/

                                          C2
                                          money or property that you receive from someone after they die:
                                          An elderly cousin had left her a small legacy.

                                          C2
                                          something that is a part of your history or that remains from an earlier time:

                                          legacynoun

                                          money or property bequeathed to someone in a will

                                          legacynoun

                                          Something inherited from a predecessor; a heritage

                                          John Muir left as his legacy an enduring spirit of respect for the environment.

                                          legacynoun

                                          The descendant of an alumnus

                                          Because she was a legacy, her mother's sorority rushed her.

                                          legacyadjective

                                          of a computer system that has been in service for many years and that a business still relies upon, even though it is becoming expensive or difficult to maintain

                                          legacyadjective

                                          left behind; old or no longer in active use

                                          Legacynoun

                                          Legacy is a particular thing given by last will and testament.

                                          Legacynoun

                                          a gift of property by will, esp. of money or personal property; a bequest. Also Fig.; as, a legacy of dishonor or disease

                                          Legacynoun

                                          a business with which one is intrusted by another; a commission; -- obsolete, except in the phrases last legacy, dying legacy, and the like

                                          I'm going to stop for a breath. From what I'm finding, 'legacy' is being used as the person using it, sees fit. For the most part, totally incorrect.

                                          It does mean money...............and guess who will have the richest legacies of them all, in the world of professional golf??

                                          🤔

                                          Sneakylong He’s playing for the love of football and to win championships.

                                          More power to him, but that is not his legacy, by definitions I've found. That is merely his history, his accomplishments. His salary is his legacy, if there is any left when he passes away. If he's broke, sorry, no legacy.

                                              Subsonic

                                              Disagree. Lol Can’t go on forever arguing about this . 🙄 But one reason Tom left the Patriots was because Belichick wanted to move on from Brady.

                                              Belichick wanted to keep Jimmy G. over Tom before but Kraft said no. So they moved Jimmy G. Fast forward and another reason was Tom wasn’t having as much fun. Brady could never understand why Belichick never asked him to play golf. Lol. True.

                                              So Brady left. His first choice was San Francisco (Brady’s childhood home team). But they stayed with Jimmy G. He looked around and saw Tampa had the best receiving core. Better than anything he had with the Pats.

                                              Belichick was defensive minded and never gave Brady the receiving corps he deserved. Spent all of Toms hometown discount money on defensive players.

                                              Anyway, there was always a debate was it Belichick or Brady. Brady answered that question winning a Super Bowl in his first season with the Bucs during a pandemic.

                                              Case closed. Tom could’ve made a lot more money going elsewhere, but he stayed in New England to win championships. Legacy……

                                                  Sneakylong Don’t sell yourself short.

                                                  Thanks for making my points for me. Tom could stay in New England because he Already had the money. Surely you can see that. Had he been married to a cheer leader he would have went somewhere else because he would have needed the money. He is the only QB in the NFL whose wife is the bread winner in the family.

                                                  You act as if King Arthur was riding into Gillette Stadium on a white horse to play. If it was about Brady vs Bellichik he could have left NE years ago and went to a better team. Could it be perhaps, that Tom was concerned most about providing stability for his family? Maybe that is his true Legacy?

                                                      Par4QC

                                                      Nope, nope and nope. Legacy is your accomplishments. Two time (1911- 1912) U.S. Open winner John McDermott was institutionalized with mental illness for most of his life after his accomplishments.

                                                      The story goes many years later his sister took him to a U.S. Open. He wandered away from his sister and was in the Pro Shop and the person working went over and was going to escort him out.

                                                      Arnold saw what was happening and recognized McDermott and went over and said this gentleman is a back to back U.S. Open champion and he is my guest today.

                                                      Palmer recognized McDermott because of his accomplishments / legacy and not because he did or did not have money.

                                                          Subsonic

                                                          Nope. You clearly are not up to speed on this. I explained why he stayed and why he left. But believe what you want.

                                                          I find it quite humorous that you think you know what your talking about. Lol