Bangoman Nice!! I like it too. Can't wait to see what you have coming!
Why can't there be Launch Monitor standards ?
Pain in the ass but he is buying sets so let him have his fun...lol
I remember a LDer like that only it was F/A and loft. I would just pull 3 or 4 boxes of 6* heads and plant him next to L&L machine and he would be there for 8 hours looking for perfect specs
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Bangoman True, can't complain too much about a paying customer. But then again I probably spent 10x as much time with him as I do most customers, so the return on time investment was pretty low. But I'll always do whatever I can to make sure the customer is 100% happy with the setup they're getting, so if that's what it takes then that's what it takes.
I guess the point I was trying to make is that LM numbers can be helpful in fitting, but far too many people get too caught up in the static data that they provide. Fitting is more of an art than a science, and just as with any artform every artist (fitter) has their own style and way of interpreting the data they get from LM's. And they will all use that interpretation along with their experience, opinions, preferences, and insight to put together a setup for you that they personally deem to be "ideal". But in the end, what matters most is how you play with the clubs on the course. That's why I said you could get fit for a driver by 10 different top 10 fitters and get 10 vastly different setups, all of which may work very well for you.
And the truth of the matter is that 99% of golfers don't have a consistent enough swing that the shafts/heads/specs I fit them with today will be the same setup that their swing might dictate if they come in again 3 months from now, or hell even 3 days from now.
If you don't have spare time to BS with this neurotic customer, best to lose him. He might ended up costing you more than you could make from building the set ( or 2) for him.
Probably already did cost you more with all the time you have to spend with him. No one could ever make this type of client happy.
When I meet this type of client in my business, I'd ask "how many" first. Get the message across that they couldn't do enough business to own you.
Launch monitors are like using a Dynamometer on a racing engine. Sheer overall numbers don't equate how quickly the engine makes HP, etc. Torque is needed to get an object moving, etc.
Throw wind into the equation and the perfect launch angle you had at the range literally just blew out the window.
Covering two subjects: Sometimes a customer needs to be fired as they end up not being worth one's time.
I believe use of any swing machine is good for a comparison of "clubs" you are considering buying. As an example does it show me ClubA is better suited for me than ClubB or ClubC and at best, only that day between those 3 clubs. Any other variable (ClubD, the day, compare machine to machine, etc.) is not valid.
I believe they can also be useful in training one to repeat a given swing. Harvey Penick once said (paraphrasing) be wary of a person who can repeat their swing each time as they can learn to control it no matter how bad. Want "bad swings" that worked well for them? Look at Palmer and Trevino.
Don't lose your mind over the number fluff. Of you've got the game for a few hundred RPM of spin to make a difference that's awesome, but once you're hitting the ball 280 and under control, a little less spin or a few more yards aren't making a difference on the scorecard.
I've got a driver I can mash DEEP but I feel like it launches a little lower than what would be ideal. Guess how many strokes I lose because my driver might launch slightly low? Zero.
The numbers aren't useless, but if you've got a setup that you hit well and can control they're going to be more trouble than they're worth. Lots of time and money and stress just to gain no strokes.
Here is a quote from the US Open this year (I think -- it was definitely one of the majors) from Curtis Strange (I think -- the commentators were not on the screen at the time and it was just a couple of them talking). They were discussing Zach Johnson's driver set-up and how his launch was 13*. One of the commentators said that he could hit it further with a a higher launch, but that Zach said he didn't do that because he couldn't hit fairways with it. Strange (I believe) said, "There is a window that these players like to see their ball go through. You start looking for optimums and, well, let me tell you, the hall of fame is full of players who never saw optimum."
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God....it feels good to hear a fitter talk like you do James! You must be an exceptional fitter. I get so tired of the same happy horseshit from so many others. GD Should read that post I am sure you would make Top 100. Like frank V. Said...it's first and foremost a selling tool....they see what you want them to hear.
Wow...tons of replies! Cool.
Rex, during the day I hate my job so much that I look for these stores just to go in and give myself a half hour away from wanting to cut someone's head off and stuff it in a bowling bag.
What gets me, and I think of others using these monitors too is why does the same machine give me 2 different calculations of almost the same numbers.
For me, I'm old school and like to see ballflight. The only time I have access to different shafts is on one of these....how do I know what it looks like.
My game, yeah it's fine. Just always think I'm lea ing something on the table.
Oh my putting has improved! Hahaha
I want to go see Frank over at Ace of clubs. It's just that I can pick up an M1 or M2 with credit from Golfers Warehouse. They guy I know there could fit me, he did a good job with my irons but I'd rather have Frank do it.
Then there is the m1 or M2 head question....I like the sliding cc weight but I'm afraid I'll be like a kid picking at a scab if I get something with a lot of adjustments!
What happens in the cage is not necessarily what will happen on the course. I think all that data just over complicates things and causes players to think too much. When the driver you selected based on the data doesn't behave on the course, how do you troubleshoot? Was it the machine? Is it the shaft? Is it the current hosel adjustment? Is it you?
The conditions in that building, on that day, with that setup and ball,etc, etc...will never be the same as the actual conditions outside on the course that you cannot control. Plus, on the course you are not "give myself a half hour away from wanting to cut someone's head off and stuff it in a bowling bag." Therefore, your entire demeanor and attitude is different. Just go out and have fun. Sounds like to me, from reading these comments, that your game is quite good, unless you make your living at, just go with it. Those numbers on the machine are just some computer geek's way of messing with you because they can't play very well...And why are the numbers different - because the computer geek's are different.
If I had his game the last place I would be is hitting a ball into a wall and trying to figure out how to fuck that all up with a different head-shaft combo, based on shit that even that computer doesn't know.
I'm not suggesting Ty is the Chuck Norris of golf.
But neither am I denying it.
Pissing my pants laughing right now Steve!
So I guess u guys would get a kick out of the fact that I Mark my golf balls " Bad Motherfucker" in sharpie.
I'm working tonite...
Must...resist...the GC2...
I think I drive myself nuts with my " am I leaving something on the table" view. Always thinking I can hit it farther and be accurate.
Same was at the gym...I'm 5-6" in heels and I use the 36" box for box jumps...but I've stacked 2 smaller boxes to get to 42"....why? Because I look at those boxes standing there and I get like a drug addict in front of a mountain of coke.
Now if I had that attitude where I work....there it's, screw that I'm outta here.
How many strokes are you going to take off your score by (theoretically) gaining 10 yards, even if you can do it without sacrificing accuracy?
0.5? 1.0? Is that worth $400 and the time and the stress? Keep in mind that it is entirely theoretical, too. If you're asking these questions you've ready got something that fits you pretty well. Your best case scenario stroke gain is probably 0.1-0.5/rd.
If you're not hitting every GIR from a reasonable lie, and making 90% of your 4-footers, quit spending money on drivers. Practice. Time better spent.