Par4QC

Surprised you would make that statement concerning Drivers and "any club" face, concerning spin, Par?

      Bangoman Grooves creating spin off a driver's face is also BS.

      "Grooves creating spin off a driver's face is also BS."

      It needs to be read as written. Grooves don't cause it.

        Release A common trick for the hustler in the old days was to use lubricant ( Vaseline ) on the driver face to produce longer and straighter drives.

        My point. Why would water make a ball 'slip'?

        You hit that ball dead square(at contact, not at separation), it goes straight.

            ode

            The friction is also a claim by ping regarding the g30 driver line.

                ...and what the he'll are you doing on wrx ode? That's only for +10 hdcp guys that hit it 420 and but $1200 driver shafts!?

                  Typhoon The friction is also a claim by ping regarding the g30 driver line.

                  The elastic properties of the ball comes into play when the ball is compressed and then springs away from the clubhead.

                  Friction torque also comes into play to set the ball spinning.

                  PING did not discover this, lol.

                      Pat...Since the title of the thread is VG Drivers as pictured. You're saying those VG have no effect on spin whatsoever? If I come with an outside in swing with the face of the Driver virtually 'sliding/cutting' across the ball that G pattern is going to have no effect on spin?

                        Par4QC

                        Yes.

                        Theoretically if the squared face with proper launch angle will create minimum friction which will be neglect to influence the spin rate if at all.
                        Totally agreed that the swing path and the club face angle will cause spin with the driver . Unfortunately, most of the weekend golfers will never "fel" what the club head is doing at impact.

                          Par4QC MAybe that's why the G20, G25 drivers out performed the G30-G35 ?

                            Bangoman the face of the Driver virtually 'sliding/cutting' across the ball

                            That would be like putting 'English' on a cueball. Again, the ball is only on the face .0004 sec., at contact. If you were able to 'slide' the clubface across the ball, that would be (probably) a penalty, as you'd hit the ball more than once. Nobody swings that fast.

                            Anyone (besides me) believe that loft plays the major role in spin?? If not, then why do LD guys go with such low lofts?????

                              Loft and AoA (angle of attack) are the dominant factors in vertical spin. AoA serves to either increase or decrease the consequence of the loft at impact. Positive AoA (upward strike) counteracts the backspin produced by the loft to an extent, likewise a negative AoA (descending strike) exaggerates the spin produced by loft. Grooves play virtually no role in a full swing except to create a place for moisture to vacate the impact area upon compression. From a dry lie, you'd hit the same full 9i shot with or without grooves.

                              Short shots can benefit from sharp grooves, as I recall, since there's less speed involved.

                              Since driver impact is extremely fast, and there's almost no chance for moisture interference with a teed ball, I cannot imagine grooves if any kind having any beneficial impact whatsoever. And if they did... Vertical grooves? That would only even theoretically increase sidespin. Who wants that??

                              Typhoon lol, my favorite thread over there is "craft beer drinkers unite"....get a lot of good chatter about good beer in that one....just gotta find the threads where there are some down to earth folks posting.

                                  ode

                                  I go on there but , like you, need to find the threads I can post in with a straight face.

                                  They do have good swap shop since they all buy top end equipment brand new and then dump it.

                                      Ok, where's my SMT 455 fit in here!!??

                                      Someone needs to do a test...
                                      No grooves
                                      Horizontal grooves
                                      Vertical grooves
                                      Angled grooves like SMT Solitaire
                                      Dots like the head Release showed us.

                                        Bangoman I agree with the side spin, coming across the ball could only increase it as the grooves are providing traction. Also, aren't grooves on a thin face just an opportunity for a stress riser?

                                            Well, if we must. First off, using Vaseline on a face was to fill in the grooves to reduce spin. Secoondly, today's modern drivers for the most part do not have grooves in the middle of the face to lessen spin. Yet, t he heel and toe have grooves to help recover off center hits. 15 to 20 years ago, if you recall, some companies were making shiny face golf clubs. This reduced the friction so much, especially when moisture was either on the face or ball it lowered the spin rate so dramatically the ball nosedived into the ground. Bead blasting the face of a Driver created the necessary friction required to maintain proper spin hence groove less faces ala 455 DB. Grooves on irons. I designed the PSi or Progressive Spin irons over 20 years ago. We had an independent lab field test these and they were lab proven to work as designed in conjunction with grooves up to a certain point.