Sparky Problem on hole 9 doesn't exist if you leave the pin in. You and have made the putt.

      rsvman2 Problem on hole 9 doesn't exist if you leave the pin in.

      I've had the pin reject the ball a lot more times than it has helped me. And visually, I just can't get used to seeing the pin in there on a 5 foot putt. It bothers me.

          Giphy - 76 GIF

          Finally!

          11 greens, 2 sandies, 32 putts.
          One birdie, no doubles.
          Driver worked well. Short game was on 🔥

            Sparky Interesting. The pin helps me more than it hurts me. And on short putts, lt seems to focus attention better for most golfers.

            I don't think i've taken out a single pin since the rule change unless i was asked to do so for somebody else.

                Nice going Don.....what are the new driver specs?

                  fatshot Same driver but a different ball position.

                  TM M4 12°

                    rsvman2 I stopped taking it out due to laziness after COVID.....the pin will richichet balls away from the hole when off center....and I've had multiple putts richochet to the lip and out that would have been in..... no doubters. The two scenarios where I see it potentially help; a ball with speed that would have had no chance to go in but the pin gets in the way (dead center strike) or when I've power lipped one and yet the pin barely catches it just right and slows momentum and it goes in.....would that putt have stayed in without the pin in🤔. If I were playing for something that mattered the pin would be out!

                        ode Again, I find this fascinating. Data that I have seen have shown that balls that hit the pin and miss also miss with the pin out, and stay closer to the hole (thus making the next putt easier).

                        It amazes me that this question somehow hasn't yet been definitively answered. Give me a stimpmeter, a bunch of golf balls, and about a week and I could tell you everything there is to know about the subject. I would roll thousands of balls at just past the hole speed, two feet past the hole speed, five feet past the hole speed; I would roll them over the right third of the hole, the middle of the hole, and the left side of the hole. Uphillers, downhillers, left breakers and right breakers. I would calculate not just how many went in but the also what the leave was for the putts that missed.

                        I am inclined to think that leaving the pin in would overall be advantageous for virtually everybody. I think the pin saves people a lot more than it harms them.

                        Again, it astounds me that somebody hasn't already done an exhaustive study.

                            rsvman2 I am inclined to think that leaving the pin in would overall be advantageous for virtually everybody. I think the pin saves people a lot more than it harms them.
                            Again, it astounds me that somebody hasn't already done an exhaustive study.

                            I just read a report somewhere this week that described just such a test. And it concluded that your assumption is correct.....that leaving the pin in provides an advantage to golfers as opposed to removing it. I always feel like the pin is a backstop for putts.....Will see if I can find the article....

                                We've been leaving the pin in since the rule changed. Been doing it for so long now that it looks weird when the pin is out.

                                rsvman2 I think there have been "studies" indicating both. As it relates to putts going in the cup....I think pln out. If the goal is to have the ball stay closer to the hole based off a putt that would have otherwise missed🤔....I dunno, maybe pin in......but IMO that shouldn't be the goal😜

                                    fatshot Ian BF during a broadcast last year indicated it has been studied and proven that pin out was the best method.....not sure what "study" he was referring to.

                                        Sparky I've had the pin reject the ball a lot more times than it has helped me.

                                        I like the pin out. The hole isn't any larger, but it has more room in it. 😉👍

                                          Bravopilot thanks.....that is essentially my experience ....glancing blows are more likely then direct hits and the risk is it will get knocked out vs. in. Those that like the pin in for some sort of visual reference should have someone tend vs. leave it in.

                                          Now am I going to get off my dead ass and take the pin out 🙃