Moe/ Graves/ Junge swing

DonM

Anyone here currently using the Moe Norman type swing?

scotts33

Don---I had tinkered with Junge. I do think if you go this way your equipment needs to be changed to "fit" the swing. One can tinker around a bit with traditionally "fit" clubs but if you get serious then your equipment needs to "fit" the one plane swing. You can do that so it would interesting. I am more of a Sparks type guy works better for my kind of mental outlook on the game. I think, I could try Junge again and have better success. Al of these guys need to be bought into or it won't work. I just don't have the time and unable to practice on range with our health crisis.

sdandrea1

Lots of threads in here Don on those swings. You might be better at searching than I am, but there's a few in here with LOTS of replies. I use a single plane swing with my driver, but not any clubs shorter than that.

DonM

I am on my 16th year with it. Not looking for tips, just wondering if I’m the only one.

scotts33

DonM I am on my 16th year with it. Not looking for tips, just wondering if I’m the only one.

Got any video's of yourself using single plane Don?

azgreg

There's some discussion on Junge swing in this thread.
https://golfbuzz.com/d/3949-non-traditional-golf-swing-discussion

DonM

scotts33 Nothing recent. I hope to make new ones this summer. I’ll look at my older ones and see if they are still representative of what I do. I have made little changes over time.

scotts33

DonM Nothing recent. I hope to make new ones this summer. I’ll look at my older ones and see if they are still representative of what I do. I have made little changes over time.

Very nice thanks for posting. Don--What are your specs for 5i and PW? Did you change anything over a traditional "fitting" if you played double plane back in the day?

DonM

My 37” iron is 64 degrees. 38” is 63. I stop at 65 no matter what length my wedges are. I didn’t change much, if at all, from my old swing.

therod

I use it. I have the original Heard video series from 20 years ago or so. Once you get used to the grip, it's easy enough to use. Executing it correctly is, as usual, the challenge. But since I don't get to play as much as I used to 15 years ago without a wife and kids, my scores don't swing that much.

DonM

therod The Heard Super Swing was one of the first things I tried. I seem to recall it hurt my left elbow.

Tommy Two Gloves Gainey was pretty close to the Heard swing, at least several years ago when he was showing up on TV.

DonM

@gllama

Answer to a question in another thread.

I started using the Natural Golf swing because it didn’t hurt my back. The bonus was that I immediately dropped a dozen strokes with it. I’ve tried variations from Graves, Jerry Heard, Scott Hazledine, and Kirk Junge. I’m pretty much doing the Junge method.

Over the years I’ve had 4 lessons, and some video feedback. By now I know what I’m trying to do, usually. I’ve found that if I make the grip correctly, and swing back on the proper plane, the rest is easy. But I’ve fought the plane for 20 years, lol. Finally this year I decided to get on plane instead of trying to work around the wrong plane. I mean, getting on the right plane sounds easy, but it isn’t easy for me. Still, I really like the swing.

Graves instruction is very methodical and meticulous, if you like that. Junge is more big picture, but sometimes his instruction lacks specifics that you might want. Grip and setup are harder to get right than with a normal swing imo. Harder setup, easier swing.

If you have questions, I’ll do my best.

gllama

DonM
Thanks for the info. When I first started the single plane swing (via Natural Golf) years ago I thought I had found the Holy Grail swing. I was fascinated by Moe Norman and how effortlessly he swung a club, making perfect contact every time. I made great progress but I soon found out that I was no Moe Norman and when my swing went haywire, there was no local instructor to get me back on track. So I abandoned it and went back to my old swing. At one time I was a pretty good golfer with a 5-6 handicap at a tough course. But my irons were always my weakness. I hit my drives a long ways and often just had a sand or gap wedge into par 4s. But those days are long gone and now at 67, I’m having to hit 6, 7 or 8 irons into some par 4s and I’m really struggling. A lot of my inconsistency has to do with arthritis in my back. And with a couple of joint replacements plus the fragile back, I just don’t have the same swing I used to have. Everything feels off and my back is killing me after a round.
Hence, the thought of going back to the Moe Norman swing. I’ve watched some You Tube videos of Moe and Todd Graves. So effortless and efficient. I’ll check out Junge also.
The key will be to stick with it. Any change will take time, maybe a lot of time.
Good to know there’s someone else who appreciates Moe Norman and the single plane swing.
Wish me luck!

DonM

gllama
It is great for my back. It doesn't have the side bend while twisting the spine of a regular swing. Once in a while I would try a conventional swing again, and it would only take one session to remind me why I couldn't do it.

The lack of instructors is a big drawback. At least today you can do video membership lessons with Graves or Junge. Also Chandler Rusk, CMRgolf.com . I took an in person lesson from him this spring. He's pretty good too. Maybe somewhere in between Graves and Junge.

Swinging this way, I have always done better with woods than irons. Actually this season I've finally started to improve my irons. Going back to steel was a big help for me. The swing is short and quick, so the shaft matters more than in most swings.

You don't need to change much equipment wise. I am a degree or two upright from standard. And for my medium hands I like midsize grips. Grip sizing is pretty important. I could play with standard grips but eventually it would become a problem.

Graves recommendations are in line with what I like. Junge and Rusk like the Jumbo Max grips. (But they have referral deals, so...) Rusk has bigger hands than me and he uses the JM "regular jumbo" or "regular oversize", whatever it's called. It's the smallest one they make. It's still too big for me. I like the feel of the big grip but it causes tennis elbow for me. Might just be me.

scotts33

JMO but from fitting some single plane guys I think there is a lot of validity in single plane. Junge seems to be easier for many to grasp. It will feel awkward to double planers but give it some time it can pay dividends. I also think single length and single plane go hand and hand and single length works better with single plane.

gllama

DonM
I watched a Junge video on YouTube about why he no longer uses the Moe Norman swing. Very interesting. I especially paid notice to what he said about having to stand too far from the ball with fairly stiff legs making it difficult (for him) to make consistent contact. And yet he played and taught that swing for many years, quite successfully.

garyt1957

DonM that's the sticking point for me with SP, finding hands on instruction. I need somebody to confirm I'm doing what I think I'm doing, at least early on.
I agree though, when I've tried it , it worked better with woods.

scotts33

The one factor, I noticed with single plane is club face control is much better hence all the straight shots you see on any single plane video from novices thru experienced. That's the biggest take away that most don't even know about or consider. That's why Moe was so good and deadly accurate.

rsvman2

scotts33 There is a way to get better clubface control using a conventional swing, too, though. Most people open up the clubface fairly rapidly in the first third of their backswing, but you can train yourself to keep the clubface perpendicular to the swing plane. It takes a lot of half-swing shots to get the feel ingrained, but it is doable. I took my average 18-hole score down by about 5 shots by practicing this move.

DonM

scotts33 That was the first thing I discovered when I first tried it.

People find this hard to believe, but the trail hand and forearm do not rotate during the backswing and downswing. The hand also doesn’t tip up or down. (Ulnar deviation and whatever.). All the wrist does is flex and extend (think of slapping). At the same time, the lead arm and hand DO rotate. It sounds crazy but it’s all about the grip and the swing plane. It’s easy to see on a one handed swing, once you get the grip right. A mirror is invaluable for learning the backswing.

So if the trail hand doesn’t rotate and you swing on one plane, you can imagine how much less the face rotates versus a regular swing.

garyt1957

scotts33 I think Moe's was just a savant. Chasing Moe's swing or expecting anything close to Moe's results are a fool's folly. Wasn't Moe's early swing conventional and he was still great. He certainly didn't swing like "Natural Golf Moe" in the early years, which actually shows what a one of a kind he was. He changed swings in his 50s-60s and still hit it better than almost anybody

Supp

Several years go I used the Natural Golf method for a couple of seasons. I was actually pretty impressed with the results, however over time I unintentionally slipped back into a more traditional swing. I think, after reading this thread, I'll give it a shot again.