Sneakylong
65 million golfers … and only 3 million with USGA handicaps… sounds about right. I’m guessing that that 4.6% cares a great deal more about the game than the “bottom” 95.4%

And only about 1% of people can dunk a basketball … should they change the rules of basketball and lower the hoop too?

Want to ensure mediocrity at best - cater to the LCD. Make the game even easier and turn the PGA into a rock, paper, scissors league where the winner is determined by who got the luckiest that week and/or made more putts. While we are at it - increase the cup size to 8.5” because most golfers suck at putting too.

The USGA is just removing the training wheels/gutter bumpers. And doing so like they are removing a bandage from a toddler. 5% isn’t nearly enough (unless other changes are coming). I recently saw a chart showing Greg Norman’s club distances while he was at his peak … and couldn’t help but think there was something very wrong with mine, at age 60, being two clubs longer.

      Pro's: 14 yard loss an a 300+ drive will turn the game from drive + half swing wedge into drive 3/4 swing wedge. About as exiting to watch as it is to play. To bring back the 'old' skills of iron play the rollback should be at least 50 yards.

      Amateurs: losing 10 yards by having a higher spin ball can be easely be compensated by using lower lofted drivers. And having some extra spin on the iron shots to the green will be an advantage to them. The problem lies that they will loose 5% on every shot. A 500 yard par 5 will play like a 550 yards and most amateur courses just do not have the money to move all they tee boxes forward.

      Changing forgiveness is even more absurd to do if you just compare the impact pattern on a pro driver and a 10 handicap driver, one does not need to be a rocket scientist to see who will be severly affected and who doesn't one bit.

      The only thing that makes sence is making courses tougher for pro play.

        Stu1961 And only about 1% of people can dunk a basketball … should they change the rules of basketball and lower the hoop too?

        They banned dunking from 1967 to 1976. Another example of misguided governance. 😏

        Btw I'm only 6 feet and was co-captain of the Harwich Rough Riders in the early 70's. 😎 I could dunk a basketball in high school. Anyway I digress. Other than that we completely disagree on the USGA.

        I could’ve dunked here, but it was outlawed.😡 March of 1973 against Nantucket (we kicked ass). It was us seniors last game. Two of us could dunk and after the game we both dunked in protest.😉

          Luc_Van_Daele The only thing that makes sense is making courses tougher for pro play.

          I think they know how to do that already, and have incorporated some of those things ... but that just makes the course harder, not the game. Plus, tricking up a course favors luck over skill in most instances. Do you believe their only goal here is to reduce pro scores? I don't. They could put 100 yard long ravines in the fairways starting at 275 yards (or knee deep grass). They want to bring back skill sets ... and not by removing one to do so. They still want to reward players who can hit it longer without having everyone averaging close to 300 yards. Would the game have been as exciting without Nicklaus or Woods, in their prime, hitting it further than most everyone else? If they could have everyone average about 280, I think they would be very happy - even if there were outliers hitting it 300 or more (as it was in 1990ish). 5% isn't going to do that, but as I said above, they are proceeding as if removing a bandage from a toddler.

          Luc_Van_Daele A 500 yard par 5 will play like a 550 yards and most amateur courses just do not have the money to move all they tee boxes forward.

          Unless they are a newer course, don't they already have those areas? If not, change the designations on current tee boxes. Make the whites the new blues, and the blues the new champions tees (champion tees can be changes to masochist tees). Plus, it's a lot less expensive to make changes on land they at least own. Though, if I were a club, I would be a little pissed having spent a ton of money to accommodate the equipment changes, and now have to go back.

                Stu1961 they are proceeding as if removing a bandage from a toddler.

                Actually, they are putting diapers on those toddlers that are potty trained because of the few that still shit themselves.
                JMO!

                  If the USGA can put in a roll back on joggers, I'll support them🙃....2 strokes if you are over 🤔40 and wear them. 1 for everyone else😘

                    I'll keep playing my Pinnacle Rush balls, nobody will give them a second thought
                    about any 'roll-back' BS rules!

                    ode 1 for everyone else

                    and leave the LPGA and their lululemons alone!

                        Ya know… it’s not like the scoring average is in the 50’s. That’s another thing I don’t get… it’s not like this huge distance gain has 10-15 guys per week shooting in the 50’s and breaking course records.

                          Spuzz I'd have other restrictions/requirements for the LPGA.....but I digress 🙃

                            Typhoon
                            I’m guessing the reason the scoring average has not plummeted significantly, is because putting is the great equalizer. What has changed drastically are the clubs used to arrive at the green, and the type of shots/skill needed. It’s not about scoring.
                            As for course records - you do realize that during the entire history of golf prior to 1990, there was one sub 60 round during a professional round. Since then … 36. Players that much better? Or has equipment made the game easier to allow these (several from players I’ve never heard of).

                                Stu1961 golf prior to 1990, there was one sub 60 round during a professional round. Since then … 36

                                Don’t forget the 2 58s…... And, the ladies 59.
                                Scoring records will be broken. It’s the winning records that are hard to break because they are against their peers. There are lots of factors that have made the game easier to play. A good thing ? Opinions vary. 🤔

                                    Eguller
                                    Lol, I included those!
                                    Winning records have indeed been more difficult to break. It’s harder for the cream to rise when equipment has leveled the playing fields to the point where anyone can get hot and win. That, I think, is exactly what the USGA does not want. They want two or three players, a rivalry, competing regularly. Star power! Lucky for the PGA, there may only be two or three players left after LIV defections 😇

                                        7 days later

                                        Stu1961 It’s harder for the cream to rise when equipment has leveled the playing fields to the point where anyone can get hot and win.

                                        Maybe the game of golf is just attracting more good athletes than it used to (money), and the depth of the field is simply better in terms of skill level. Equipment is no doubt a factor but I'm skeptical that it's even 50% responsible for "leveling the playing field." If the USGA eventually dials the distance of the ball way back, it might not have as much of an impact as they think.

                                            MidwayJ Maybe the game of golf is just attracting more good athletes than it used to (money), and the depth of the field is simply better in terms of skill level

                                            Watch a few old Shell sponsored TV events and see how fit the "stars" are.
                                            It's not even close to today's guys.
                                            Having said that, the ball is the biggest reason there was a huge jump in distance (around year 2000, coinciding with the ProV acceptance on tour) but since that initial leap, there hasn't been a big jump in distance, just a huge increase in how many guys hit it over 300 yards now.
                                            Just a Spuzzervation.

                                                MidwayJ

                                                Will we ever know how much they think it will? Their own stats tell them that 5% is not going to bring them back to 1990 distances (if that is even what/when they wanted). I have a stronger suspicion that the 5% was simply the figure they felt would be most palatable at this time. They haven’t closed the door on additional measures … or even additional distance restrictions.

                                                As for money attracting better athletes … maybe? Though money is also a two edged sword as it might cramp motivation. Note: There was just an article out, last month, listing sixteen players who have reached the $10 million career earnings level without a single victory. Not bad.
                                                And, as to depth of fields … well, that’s an unsolvable chicken-or-the-egg type question. Perhaps the fields only look deeper because the equipment has leveled the playing field? The only way to truly find out … is to put the cat back in the bag, and right now, as their plans stand, it appears to be only about half way in.

                                                    Stu1961 I tend to think course conditions now vs when Geiberger shot 59 are the big factor. Look at how manicured things are now vs, what courses looked like on Shells Wonderful world of golf. The greens…

                                                    Go back to old time course conditions instead of messing with the ball

                                                        Typhoon
                                                        I agree about course conditions -- the roll they get in the fairways is unbelievable. We had mostly frozen fairways yesterday in NY and we still didn't see the 40 yards of run out they often get on tour. Fairways are tight and firm on tour -- they're like the greens I grew up playing.

                                                          sdandrea1

                                                          If you played pre ‘99 in the balata, slower course and smaller driver era, you understand how much the balance of the game has changed from more of a skills contest to a power/entertainment show.

                                                          Putting has always been very good to great at the pro level. JMO.