sdandrea1 I would not have had a problem with Saturday had it been equivalent for the entire field. That two players going into the day tied for 45th place were able to move ahead of all but two of those in front of them in one round testifies that the course was easier for the morning groups than it was for the leaders. Rose and Stenson played heroic golf under the conditions and yet gave up their positions on the leaderboard to players that started the day way behind them. What Koepka did in going only 2 over was a round for the ages. It can be stupid if that's the way the USGA wants it, but it should be stupid for everyone in the field and not just the leaders that rightfully earned the lead they had over days one and two. Because the weather waits for no one, sometimes it is very unfair for groups at random times of the day, but the disparity on Saturday (and I would argue that there was still a little late Sunday as the course dried also) wasn't due to changing weather conditions, it was due to the course being set up such that the outcome was predictable - particularly since it happened the same way the last time the tournament was played at Shinnecock. Koepka played the best golf and won, but if Berger or Finau would have shot 67 on Sunday and won, I wouldn't have felt that they played the best golf in the tournament. As it is, they probably took shares of the purse that the players enduring the Saturday afternoon conditions deserved.

      johnnydoom

      What would you suggest the superintendent do to guarantee that the afternoon conditions would match the morning conditions? I say it's impossible. The best they could have done was wet it down on Friday night or early Saturday but that still would have made it easier in the morning. The wind and temps dried it out. Koepka's round for the ages on Saturday afternoon is exactly what it should take to win our national championship......and we are STILL pussies compared to the Euros. These are just my opinions, and I realize I'm in the minority. I like this event to be extremely difficult. It's just one a year.

          sdandrea1

          Difficult is fine, tough is fine, but unfair and ridiculous not so good. Saturday's round had nothing to do with mental toughness or manning up. It had more to do with the USGA screwing up. Luckily for the USGA with Koepka winning it bailed them out. Like was said, if Finau or Berger coming from 40 plus positions back had won, it would've exposed their incompetence even more.

            sdandrea1 There's only three things they can realistically do if they want to keep having the tournament at places like Shinnecock or Pinehurst. They need to keep the grass on the greens longer so the speeds don't get ridiculous, or only place pins in areas of the greens that don't roll off within feet of the hole, or play two flights and prep the course the same way for the afternoon flight as they did for the morning flight. If they put water on greens two hours prior to the start of the first flight, do the same for the second flight. I would opt for keeping the grass longer on the greens and make up for it by changes in the setup of the rough or collections areas around the greens.

                I do like to see the strenuous test, and understand that there is a fine enough line that will be crossed occasionally. I'm just glad that the best player won. I hadn't thought of it, but I guess they could start play on both nines like they did on Thurs, and Fri. Not sure how that works for the weekend spectators or TV, but it would compress the time between start and finish of play somewhat.

                  johnnydoom

                  If it affects TV, the sponsors $ will weigh in! Summertime golf is always going to yield varying conditions for the AM/PM tee times. It's mostly unavoidable. I liked your suggestion on the grass height on the greens. A little taller and the dryout would not have been as extreme. I still think the whining aftermath is extreme since the top players handled the conditions well. I will concede that the conditions delta between AM/PM was too large tho.

                      sdandrea1 I agree. There will always be some differential. But whatever they can do within their control to make it as fair as possible should be done. Rough adds a lot of luck factor in that two people can hit into the rough and one may be able to strike the back of the ball somewhat cleanly while the other might sink into almost unplayable, but at least it is random. I like watching the players play from the shaved lies and having options to putt, run, or fly the ball vs. the randomness of the rough, but in the summertime the moisture content is too variable to keep the shaved areas fair.

                        Olympic Club, Oakmont, Shinnecock Hills.... three venues where the greens are already incredibly challenging, either because of their size or the severity of their undulations. And the USGA has goofed with US Open setups in each of them. Olympic club back in '98. Shinnecock back in 2004. Oakmont in 2016. And once again - Shinnecock in 2018.

                        These greens are already incredibly challenging during normal play when the grass isn't dead and the greens aren't lightening fast. So there's a very fine line to be walked as far as margin for error with trying to make those greens more challenging without going overboard and forcing the outcome to be more about luck than skill.

                        The USGA has a history of reference to call upon regarding which courses could present problems with current-day 14-stimp speed greens to challenge today's players. There's already been a precedent there on these layouts with what they should or shouldn't do regarding green speeds and hole locations.

                        Pebble Beach also has some fairly undulated greens. There are some holes with greens that simply weren't designed to be stimped at 13. Then you factor in the wind, the lack of humidity, the sun and the overall dryness....

                        I mean - they've got the best agronomists and superintendents in the business at their disposal, yet they still find a way to f it all up.

                        Mike Davis admitted they f-ed up Saturday's setup.

                        And they did.

                        This made no sense. Let's widen the fairways, but kill the grass on the greens so they're bumpy and extremely fast. Imagine how the dead greens would've been if they didn't get any rain. So let's identify the luckiest shots into the green and best goofy greens putter. Makes no sense.

                        Here's what they should've done. With Shinnecock being on the water (links style) set it up with the worst possible weather (wind etc.) conditions possible, which is what the British Open does.

                        The USGA should shoot for narrow fairways, long rough, with smooth live grass greens and set the speed fast but at a reasonable speed. That would be a good test. Hell even grow the grass in the fairways so you don't get 50 yards of roll off the tee.

                        They would've had a better (non goofy golf) tournament had the USGA let the Shinnecock superintendent set the course up.

                        With all the moisture green reading equipment they still screwed things up. They had to really work hard to screw it up.

                        sdandrea1 it got out of control on Sat, they just needed to spritz those greens where the pins were in diabolical spots. The usga is aneasy Target and they've made it that way.....but I also think we, the golfing public need to take some responsibility in it....as we are always seemingly asking for this, and we never learn the lesson either. I don't mind par being the winning score but if there is no way to stop a ball on the green on a good shot, then it's past the point of a true test. The usga does listen....they have changes rules based off Lexi, Dustin....they have started to simplify or make more user-friendly rules recently.....same goes for the conditions at a usga event, or where the venues are held....so I also blame the folks that need these guys to struggle and unnecessarily so!

                          The USGA got lucky that it rained on Wednesday. Only 4 players broke par on Thursday. Imagine if they hadn't had rain on Wednesday. It would've been a bigger fiasco.

                          Anyway, look for the next big fight with the USGA trying to roll back the golf ball. Hopefully the Tours and manufacturers put up a bigger fight than they did when the USGA banned anchoring. Mike Davis did a 180 in less than a year on that one.

                          I cab think if two possible solutions to the disparity between earlier and later tee times on Saturday, but I'm sure tv and sponsors would fight against both of them.

                          1) Assign tee times randomly on Saturday, too. Then maybe the tournament leader hours out with Finau in the morning, or maybe not, but if they used a random number generator, nobody could say it favored the players who played worse in the first two rounds.

                          2) send the players out in the reverse order of what they are currently doing. Make it a reward for good play the first two days that you get to go out early on Saturday. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
                          Again, likely to be fought because they want the excitement to occur in the evening, not at 11 a.m.

                            rsvman ) send the players out in the reverse order of what they are currently doing. Make it a reward for good play the first two days that you get to go out early on Saturday. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

                            I like this

                            • ode replied to this.

                                rsvman Again, likely to be fought because they want the excitement to occur in the evening, not at 11 a.m.

                                TV and sponsor money is involved heavily on the weekends, so that one probably won't fly, but it's a great idea.

                                  Spuzz rsvman ) send the players out in the reverse order of what they are currently doing. Make it a reward for good play the first two days that you get to go out early on Saturday. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

                                  I like this

                                  That'll really jump start the ratings🙄

                                      ode
                                      I don't care about ratings!
                                      LOL
                                      It has a Nascar feel to it. Qualify higher up and lead the pack. Stay out of trouble.
                                      Maybe take it a step further and let the final pairing on Sunday decide if they want to go first or last.
                                      Submit their decision separately and secretly (unknown to each other)
                                      Might stop these late day slugs from playing for Pars because "that's all he needed to do to win/make the cut" which is boring as fock.

                                          I liked James Hahn's quote - "The USGA doesn't know how to run a professional tournament because they don't run professional tournaments". 😉

                                            Spuzz Might stop these late day slugs from playing for Pars because "that's all he needed to do to win/make the cut" which is boring as fock.

                                            you misspelled fuck.......................

                                              sdandrea1

                                              Hahn's quote is correct. You have amateurs trying to run a professional tournament.

                                              Heard Michael Breed say maybe the USGA should build their own course. That way they can set it up the way they want with greens having sub air systems etc.. Fox pays them $100 million so they have the money. Not a crazy Idea IMO.