New PGA course

Tinker · 2018-05-17T21:57:56+00:00

Made sure to watch the Byron Nelson today after reading about the new course. What a dissapointment. Place looks like a pasture with the grass cut. Why would...

Tinker

Coore and Crenshaw appear to do easy layouts. They took the teeth out of Pinehurst 2. But getting rid of the rough they let these guys hit it anywhere and still have a shot. I don’t care for high rough but I’m a recreational golfer. These guys need to be asked to hit targets.

mikeintopeka

MidwayJ I read the course is supposed to play firmer and faster but they didn't want to "overdo" it the first year, so they softened it up and slowed it down some from how the members have been playing it. Combine that with no wind today and it played easy.

That was in one of the articles I read while in the Metroplex this week too. Crenshaw said in another interview the goal of this course design was to replicate a links layout you'd find in the inward British Isles courses not before found in the US. It is unique and different. Hunter Mahan is a member and is a vocal defender of the design.

The course can be set up tougher but didn't want the players bitching about the unplayable conditions and difficult pin placements in this official 'unveiling'. Crenshaw was concerned for Joe Hack sitting on the couch at home complaining about it being boring because the subtle rolling swails on the fairways and big breaks on the greens weren't going to be evident with the camera angles from the towers that have a tendency to flatten the terrain.

I have 3 rounds under my belt on Coore-Crenshaw's Sand Hills course and it is anything but 'easy' and still ranks in the Top 20 of all American layouts. And is rated among the top world wide.

Tinker Coore and Crenshaw appear to do easy layouts.

I have a link to Crenshaw-Coore's portfolio and these tracks are generally regarded as 'tough and challenging'.

http://www.cooreandcrenshaw.com/portfolio.html

ode

mikeintopeka I would agree and everything I've read about Coore and Crenshaw is great work, Sand Hills, Bandon Dunes, and Sand Valley which is in my home state. I think they are more into desgning courses for resort/destination type venues, not pro golfers....so I would expect a little more friendly designs, but that are also firm and fast, links style. At some point I'll get to Bandon, and I'll play Sand Valley in the fall....had a time for 4/28 but mother nature was not kind to Wisconsin this spring, lots of snow and rain, so the course was not ipen and our time cancelled. The course looks stunning!

Tinker

I’m sure for the average golfer they are a blast. It’s just that the last two “New” courses built in my area have both been links style. What happened to classic American style parkland layouts with trees and streams and various elevation changes, tricky dog legs and risk reward choices.

rsvman

Tinker People got sick of them? There were a million of them? If you built a new one there was no way to distinguish it from a thousand others?

RobertThomas

Not impressed at all. Growing up in Dallas, I always attended the Byron Nelson and Colonial. When 2 under does not make the cut, that's BS. 15 under after 2 rounds? Screw the links course layout, imo, most link courses are butt ugly. Crenshaws courses in AZ, Talking Stick are also disappointments. Should of left the landfill. I love the name too, Trinity Forrest, with zero trees on the actual course. Brilliant! 🙁

Tinker

The golf industry in general has moved to the bomb and gouge style of golf. When is the last time a pro has had to hit a mid iron on a par 4? Driver, hybrid and five wedges is all these guys use.

PA-PLAYA

One veteran player, whose 30 consecutive cuts-made streak came to and end Friday at the Byron Nelson, didn't have anything bad to say about the new venue. But he didn't have anything good to say about it, either.

“I think it’s best said under the lesson if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all,” Kuchar replied, when expressing his frustrations about the new venue after missing the cut Friday.

Kuchar has a good-guy reputation, doesn't have a history for being negative or making comments to the media that could be taken in a controversial light. That he responded in the manner he did, however, wasn't exactly what the tour brass and the tournament sponsors want to hear. AT&T is in their third year of title sponsorship, and they're headquartered in Dallas. The tournament itself, established back in 1944, is (probably) the oldest running tournament they hold each season (74 years). This tournament also leads the way in charity fundraising events on the tour. And it just seems to be a good fit for AT&T, with corporate headquarters there across town.

I'm sure we'll hear mostly positive reviews from those who play well this weekend and pocket a lot of cash. But it's obvious Kuchar isn't a fan of the place, and given his overall pleasant nature - I'm guessing there will be a handful of more outspoken players unafraid to be openly critical in the days to come.

https://www.si.com/golf/2018/05/18/matt-kuchar-misses-cut-byron-nelson-streak-over

mikeintopeka

PA-PLAYA - There's a back story and possibly some butt hurt over the move to the new course. IIRC, the Mayor and Econ Development team in Irving were totally blindsided that the days of playing the tournament in Las Colinas were numbered 5-6 (?) years ago. In fact, I read where the Mayor of Irving was devasted to learn that ATT and several other Captains of the Dallas Corporate elites had made some major financial commitments (6 figure initiation fees) to making this new golf course a reality. The City of Dallas pledged millions and millions in 'infra-structure' in and around the facility to show their support. The City of Dallas and ATT literally stole this show from the TPC at the Four Seasons resort and Kuchar's incredible results in playing the Byron Nelson (and rock star status there) are now in the rear view mirror.

Was the relatively weak field this week a continuation of the lackluster roster the Nelson had experienced the past few years? Or, are the tournament dates, often cited, the culprit as friends in the Metroplex suggest (squeezed between The Players and The Memorial and US Open in a few weeks)? I'm going to wait and see what the field looks like next year compared to this inaugural.

Weirfan

Tinker

we can always count on you to find something to complain about...🙄

sdandrea1

I like the difference. Why not have a few weeks on tour where we see some journeymen playing higher in the standings? Spieth isn't exactly tearing it up, BTW. Every week we see trees and streams and ponds. This is Texas golf. Bring it!

PA-PLAYA

mikeintopeka

Thanks for that 411.... it offers a different perspective as it relates to the potential money/politicking that occurs.

You also bring up an excellent point regarding when the tournament lands on the schedule. The 2019 PGA Championship, effective starting next season, will be held in May, this very same weekend next year. As a result, the Players Championship for next year will be held in March instead of May (which imo could present some issues, depending on the winter weather impacting the area).

Currently we have the WGC event in Mexico the first weekend in March. The following week is the Valspar. The week after that is the Palmer Invitational, followed by the WGC Matchplay Championship the next week (with the alternative event for those not qualified to play in the WGC Matchplay event that same weekend), followed by the Houston Open. The tour is currently looking for a title sponsor for the Houston Open, and there is word that Detroit might be a serious consideration for the tour to relocate one of their tournaments there.

In any event, this schedule reshuffle doesn't exactly bode well, as far as timing anyway, for a handful of tournaments. Most notably as it relates to this discussion - the Byron Nelson - which the tour would prefer to put on the schedule the very next week after the PGA championship. I suspect this will have a negative impact on the tournament if it does happen.

Although there seems to be a desire to retain the event in Houston, there's also the conundrum of the tour having to secure a title sponsor, and where this event might fall on the schedule is an obvious consideration for a would-be new sponsor.

How the 2019 Tour schedule might pan out is in the link below, as the tour commissioner has yet to finalize anything. But he's expected to unveil the new schedule this month sometime.

http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2018/03/28/questions-loom-2019-tour-schedule-takes-shape-pga-championship-may

MidwayJ

The Nelson would be a lot better in April when we have typical temps in the 70s in DFW, but there are too many Texas tournaments to squeeze into that month. Sounds like next year they are moving the Houston tournament from April to June (that sucks). I would even prefer the Nelson in March rather than May, given there's no shade on the course.

RobertThomas

MidwayJ

Agree, its like playing the Phoenix open in July. Texas tournaments should be in September/October.

GLFTPS

The announcers were comparing it to Olde Sandwich in Massachusetts. Those two courses should not be used in the same sentence. Olde Sandwich is a gem.

Sarnella

Wondering how many of the negative comments are by someone
who has played the course?

RobertThomas

Sarnella
Probably 6 of them.

PA-PLAYA

Sarnella

What the touring pros think and what any of us think are two entirely different animals.

The average touring pro could show up at any of our courses and shoot 65, sight unseen. The test administered for a pro tournament should be graded a bit higher as it relates to standard of play at that level.

Having said that... these guys are good enough (or should be) to overcome what appears to be a fairly straightforward layout, if they play reasonably well that week. Some players like more definition and boundaries of having to hit to a specific target. Some prefer the freedom of exactly the opposite.

It's why some guys do well at the British Open, and some do not.

Kuchar did well at the most recent British Open, but his results through his 13 starts at the British throughout his career total have him making the cut little better than half the time.

I can see why he's not overly fond of the layout. He fares better on tighter courses, and his record shows that.

But overall, I think there's enough reason to give the new layout for the Byron Nelson a chance. It's not gonna suit every player's scoring eye. Hell, look at how many times Tiger won on the same layout back in his prime... he had a reputation for determining his yearly competitive schedule based on how well he played certain layouts.

He damn near made the career money list at Bay Hill alone.

Sarnella

RobertThomas
6 of the people responding to this thread have played the course?

sdandrea1

Sarnella 6 of the people responding to this thread have played the course?

😂