fnufan

The other important thing to remember is this ( and a few others) are not universal in their application.....they are only additional options available to local rules commitees. As such its entirely possible that leagues and competions etc could choose to stick with the S &D rule as it is now. A recreational player may still choose to play by the existing S& D rule. For example, if i snap hook or pull a ball left that goes OB 150 yards out, i'm probably going to rehit ( shooting 3) from the tee and hopefully play my 4th shot to the green from a point 250 yards ahead rather than hit 4 (original tee shot plus 2 penalty strokes under new option ) from only 150 yards ahead.

""The purpose of this Local Rule is to allow a Committee to provide an extra relief option that means that a player may play on without returning to the location of the previous stroke."

At least now though amateurs have another option. Pros and elite level events will continue as before.

    fnufan No you don't play from where the ball went out. You move to the fairway (not nearer the hole than where it went out). Determine the relief area and play from anywhere in that area with a 2 stroke penalty.

    I misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification.

      I can see the "no closer to the hole" drop in the fwy on OB shots being buggered. Easy with a GPS or possibly with a range finder....otherwise it's going to be a guesstimate!

        ode
        1.3b(2) Accepting Player’s “Reasonable Judgment” in Determining a Location When Applying the Rules.
        • Many Rules require a player to determine a spot, point, line, area or other location under the Rules, such as:
         Estimating where a ball last crossed the edge of a penalty area,
         Estimating or measuring when dropping or placing a ball in taking relief, or
         Replacing a ball on its original spot (whether the spot is known or estimated).
        •
        • So long as the player does what can be reasonably expected under the circumstances to make an accurate determination, the player’s reasonable judgment will be accepted even if, after the stroke is made, the determination is shown to be wrong by video evidence or other information

        • ode likes this.

          ode

          I can see it adding to the pace of play even when players are using a GPS or range finder.
          1. Identify the point where ball came to rest or went OB
          2. Identify point of nearest fairway edge making sure its no closer to the hole.
          3. now go and triangulate and choose a spot between 1 and 2 that is no closer to the hole which provides you with the best lie, angle and least obstruction.

          Hitting a provisioanl ball is much quicker. The only situation where i would see the new rule being quicker is if the player did not hit a provisional ( when in doubt you should always hit one) and has to walk back to where the last stroke was played from. In 30 years of playing golf , I have only wver had to do this twice.....once when my ball , a good shot embedded in wet/soft turf and we couldnt find it. Another on a tee shot that gently rolled across a cart path into a sparsely populated tree area between two holes that was open and clear , should easily have been found but was probably played by a guy on the adjacent holw who had just hit and walking away as we got to the spot. 2nd was in a tournament with a group on the tee ( walk of shame) . 🙁

          Just a point of clarification, i dont believe the new rule states that a player drops in the fairway , its between the nearest edge of the fairway and where ball went ob/came to rest if lost.

              fnufan

              Thanks , didn't know that , helps to wear my glasses.

              that's quite the benefit to players under the new rule. Still requires determining two points of reference then measuring 2 club lengths which will all take more time than hitting a provisional but faster than walking back

                  Weirfan Except that there is no need to measure the two clublengths, as the rule allows you to estimate.

                  In real time, you would walk to the edge of the fairway and just drop a ball about 3 feet onto the fairway, and then hit. Simple.

                      rsvman

                      Never knew you could estimate, that must be a new rule as well.

                      Not every golf hole is perfectly straight. I don't think its as simple as walking to the edge of the fairway and dropping for the following:
                      1. there could be 50-60 yards from the point of exit and edge of fairway so it would be easy to make a significant error in no closer to the hole.
                      2. if a player loses a ball way right on a dogleg left. the closest edge of the fairway will be much closer to the hole as will pretty much any point between the exit area and the fairway so the player will have to move well back to find a point on the edge of the fairway that is no closer, maybe 30-40-50 yards from the nearest edge. In that case the point in the rough might be the better option and produce a better view or angle. Nonetheless it probably requires measuring. in this situation I am 100% hitting again from the tee .
                      3. likewise if a player loses a ball right on a dog leg right.

                      personally, unless its a really tough shot, I'm likely sticking with hitting a provisional unless I was trying to drive a green or reaching a par 5 in 2 and the shot was was way up there and the next shot with 2 stroke penalty makes more sense.

                      i think there will be abuses in terms of where people drop, but I guess that happens now. i do like the fact that its 2 strokes instead of 1 s I have lots of buds who just dropped at point of entry and counted 1 before, now they will count two so I have a better chance since I play provisionals

                          I am confused you can drop anywhere in between the dotted lines of A and B (also factoring in 2 clublengths), no closer to the hole?

                            Weirfan I hear you. My first thought was that people who aren't very good at math (and maybe even those that are good at math) will have a really hard time trying to figure out what point in the fairway is no closer to the hole.

                            You have to imagine a long length of twine that stretches from the hole to the spot where your ball went out of bounds. If you had such a piece of twine, you could hold onto it tightly and then walk over to the fairway. You will have walked in an ARC. You are going to essentially walk a portion of a large circle that has a radius of the distance from the hole to where your ball went out of bounds.

                            I'd guess that most people not only would not be able to do that accurately if they understood that that's what they were supposed to do, but further that most people won't even understand the simple geometry I just outlined. You certainly can't just go laterally straight over to the fairway, because that would definitely be closer. You needn't (but can) go at an angle slightly towards the tee but walk in a straight line, which would make it so that you are farther away than you were.

                            So yes, in general, I agree with you that although the rule is simple, the physical execution of the rule is likely to be a lot more complex than they think it will be.

                            • ode replied to this.
                            • ode likes this.

                                Weirfan Never knew you could estimate, that must be a new rule as well.

                                1.3b(2) Accepting Player’s “Reasonable Judgment” in Determining a Location When Applying the Rules.
                                • Many Rules require a player to determine a spot, point, line, area or other location under the Rules, such as:
                                 Estimating where a ball last crossed the edge of a penalty area,
                                 Estimating or measuring when dropping or placing a ball in taking relief, or
                                 Replacing a ball on its original spot (whether the spot is known or estimated).
                                • Such determinations about location need to be made promptly and with care but often cannot be precise.
                                • So long as the player does what can be reasonably expected under the circumstances to make an accurate determination, the player’s reasonable judgment will be accepted even if, after the stroke is made, the determination is shown to be wrong by video evidence or other information.
                                • If a player becomes aware of a wrong determination before the stroke is made, it must be corrected (see Rule 14.5).

                                  rsvman

                                  I grasp it now thx.....interesting as it opens up a lot of drop options, including getting to a certain yardage, potentially a better angle to the green/pin, etc.....seems like dropping in the fwy would be a no brainier, but may not always be best, especially now that you don't have to drop shoulder height. Also interesting that on a lost ball you can take the two club lengths on both sides, where the ball was lost and edge of fwy. My brain is giving.push back on this, but once the avg. Player grasps the concept it will absolutely speed up play....it certainly would for me. I like it!

                                    Rember this though. 99% of recreational players don't use and really don't care about most of the rules and don't know most of them anyway.

                                    a month later

                                    note the definition of stroke is not based on hitting the ball but in trying to. so if to hit it ten times with the same stroke you only moved the club forward once. "A "stroke" is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball, "

                                    2 months later

                                    Being able to remove loose impediments in bunkers is a good move.
                                    We have lots of small rocks in most of the traps in this area.

                                      darpar

                                      I'm not sure how that is relevant to this thread. The Local Rule providing this facility has been available since Adam was a lad

                                          fnufan
                                          It's not always a local rule,but now it'll be a USGA rule.
                                          Very relevant!