ZWExton Originally I don't believe there even was a 4i, just a 5i and 5h. I am fortunate to be young and strong.

Correct. My Sterling set includes a 5i and a 5h. I find the 5h easier for me to hit, but I am 67.

    Tinker Tinker I agree with you, but I also want to acknowledge the significant role that SL clubs play in solving the long-irons for many people.

    While I agree that the greatest problem with long-irons is probably lofts, club length is a big consideration -- we hit shorter length irons in the centre of the club more consistently and control the club face better. These considerations are significant for achieving the ball speeds and launch angles needed to get these irons to perform consistently and to preserve yardage gaps. The shorter, SL clubs, I believe, are really effective for dealing with this challenge.

    At the same time, like you say, this does not solve the greater issue of generating enough SS to get the lower lofts to spin the ball and optimize carry. In fact, the shorter shaft lengths even magnified this issue. Most people have difficulty launching irons that are lower than 25* and getting them to spin the ball enough to optimize carry (I believe Tom Wishon even says 27 degrees). That difficulty increases as swing speed decreases. When I was younger, the 4-iron had a loft of 24 degrees, so it was an iron "on the bubble." If you had the swing speed, you could hit it pretty well, but it was more "iffy" than the 27-degree 5-iron. If you didn't have the SS, it became inconsistent and a problem club. The 21-degree 3-iron (and even worse, the 18 degree 2-irons) were trouble for almost everyone.

    As you say, now, in the era of 20/21 degree 4-irons, these have become problem clubs for most people and they are the reason that hybrids and FW come into play for many/most people at this loft. Many people are trying to hit a 4-iron when they would be better off hitting one of these alternative clubs, or just hitting the 5-iron into a good position, rather than hitting 80% of their 4-irons into some kind of problem. (Rich Hunt and Mark Broadie's work in regard to the stats of scoring have interesting implications in this respect.) This is the reason I made the earlier comment that a 175-yard carry with a 4-iron probably indicates a slower swing speed than is necessary to use this club consistently well.

    Sorry for the hijacked thread.

          ZWExton A 1 inch TLT build does not result in 1/8" between irons. In a TLT build, the 8 and 9-irons would probably be a little longer than in a traditional VL progression. I believe Dan then built the wedges to the same length as the 9 iron. The other irons would progress in length, but not necessarily by the same amount for each club. These lengths would be determined by the TLT series that you were building to. I do believe you are correct, however, in saying that such a build would require a larger than usual lie adjustment.

            kelco9 Total club length has made such a huge difference for me in the low loft irons. I've hit more great shots with the Sterling 4, 5, 6 than I did with my VL 6i, let alone the 5 and 4. It feels so easy, and like you said - center face contact improves results dramatically, and that's easier with a short club.

                Side comment,,,,the Sterling irons are beautifully crafted. Pure eye candy. The catalog pics do them NO justice.

                ZWExton I can totally believe that. I have a friend for whom I built a set of Pinhawks. His iron game improved so dramatically that he couldn't believe it. Every time we played he would hit several nice mid- and long-irons pretty tight to pins. He said to me, "I don't just like these irons, I LOVE these irons."

                (Funny/Odd ending to that story, though, is that he offered to trade me straight across for his Adams irons and I told he that I wasn't interested and wanted $250 for the Pinhawks (that was a great deal since they had upgraded graphite shafts that I had got a deal on -- the $250 was my cost). He got a bit pissed off that I wouldn't take the trade and said that he'd have to think about them. The next week he dropped the Pinhawks off at my place after using them for several months and told me that he had bought a set of demo Pings, which he had always wanted to own. He paid $1000! Now he's back struggling with his irons and the driver he bought as part of the same deal is in his closet. Is it wrong that I savour his struggles a bit? šŸ™‚ (Not really -- I actually hate seeing him struggle.)

                EDIT/ADD-ON: Oh yeah, and in one year two of his Ping irons have snapped at the hosel. Ping has replaced both, but apparently this last replacement was "a favour" to the pro he bought them from. They won't be replacing any others (or so he was told).

                  ValueGolf That does seem wild, but I'd try one. Can't be iron length though, right? Maybe a 3/5/7 option all made to be played at 40" or something.

                      ZWExton I think thatā€™s chuckling because Valu Golf has had them out for months.

                        Weirfan @ValueGolf has advised against changing your tip trim, presumably because it would potentially alter the balance point and thereby ruin the one feel approach. Iā€™m not sure if I would notice or not, but I suppose itā€™s possible.

                            DC300

                            The balance point isnt going to move that much if i trim a shaft 1/2 or 3/4 inch , especially with the clubs being same length and total weight. outside of perhaps a slightly softer feel im not likely to be able to detect any difference , not that sensitive to such changes. i might have to toy with things but i typically like stiffer shafts in my wedges , normal in mid and softer in long irons. Im not really as concerned with feel in this build as i am with consistency of stance , position and swing plane.

                                I prefer the look and feel of the PinHawks after having both side by side. The Sterlings look strange to me at address they are freaking HUGE. The normal cor faces are a nice feel, the hi-cor felt hollow and clicky to me, I didnā€™t like them. That said, I bet the long irons are really longer. I have the PinHawk 5 iron, it has a definite max distance capped at 200 yards for me, which isnā€™t quite as long as I can hit a hard 5 in a tradition set. That said, I can hit a hard 5 and know it will stay close to target with the Pinhawk, Iā€™ll make that trade.

                                Weirfan I agree. I had though the idea of a progressive tipping or at least more tip in the short irons to less in the longer irons made sense to have a ā€œflightedā€ set.

                                  ZWExton What is the length of your irons? Did you go with 7 or 8 iron length...or something else?

                                    36.5" is what I built to. Based on Mizuno standard length, it's right between 8i and 7i. I choke down a little here and there to cut a little distance off a necessary. It has felt like a great length for me.

                                    ValueGolf Wishon is coming out with SL Fairways? LOL

                                    I have been playing the Pinhawk SL fairways all summer. They are the best fairway woods I have ever hit. My cart bud has been using mine all summer and is ordering him some. šŸ˜œ Now if we can twist Aaron's arm to come out with a 9 wood also that would be great.

                                        JeffTilley What shafts are you playing in them, and what length?

                                        Mitsubishi Fubuki AX 65 fairway shafts tip trimmed for a 5 wood and playing at 43.5".

                                            JeffTilley Damn, you must be tall!

                                            6' 2" but I always play my clubs over length. My Sterling SL's are 38.5" including the wedges. šŸ˜±