• The Clubhouse

  • Dumbest Thing I've read today, via the internet......

Weirfan

What would those percentages of home invasions be if the would-be invaders knew that the homeowners had no means of personal protection, beyond a golf club, baseball bat, etc.? Are we to assume that the criminals are likewise merely armed with golf clubs or baseball bats? Prohibition has proven that this logic doesn't hold water.

Stats can be manipulated however one wants to reinforce their opinion.

Known knowns vs unknown unknowns. Which is why stats, often times, are meaningless. Lots of extenuating circumstances that go both ways.

      PA-PLAYA if the would-be invaders knew that the homeowners had no means of personal protection, beyond a golf club, baseball bat, etc.?

      If the invaders are coming into your house, and know you are there, they do not care what means of protection you might have.

      Don't know the stats, but I'd think these types, that come in knowing you are there, will not do it in the middle of the night. They know the high % would be that you are close to any guns you might have. If they catch you watching TV in the living/family room, or eating supper/dinner....gotcha!

      Don't get me wrong, guns are just fine by me(except the automatics), it's the thinking of gun owners that intrigue me.

          Perhaps no one is claiming to say that, but it sure is implied in the arguments/questions presented just above my initial entry. My argument against making availability difficult is simply that it doesn't seem to work with other items in the U.S. Banned substances find their way into the U.S. by van loads and large quantities seemingly in a steady stream. Some are caught with large quantities, but many apparently are not judging by the overall size of the drug trade going on. Guns are large, but not significantly enough more than bricks of powder or bales of weed that we could expect much more success if the street price is high enough. If someone with money wants to commit major mayhem, they'll get the materials whether through legal or illegal means. Its not that it was so easy to obtain the guns, it was that in this person's mind, it was easy to justify using them.

            PA-PLAYA

            How would a home invader know if a house has a gun or not whether that be here or there? I couldn't tell you what houses in my hood have a gun or not and I've lived on my street 25 years. Similarly, my with friends in the US, most ive visited don't have guns at least I've never seen anything other than one.

                Par4QC

                Perhaps. Perhaps not.

                Instead of contemplating what law-abiding gun owners think - maybe society would be better off trying to figure out what criminals are thinking.

                But gun owners are always the villain in these discussions for some strange reason, not the criminals committing the crimes.

                    johnnydoom A few years ago, a guest at the hotel where I work, left behind a magazine and I was looking thru it. It was about guns/ammo,etc.. Had pics of an AK47, or whatever it was, that iirc is illegal to own, inc. a complete breakdown/diagram. 1/2 of the magazine was dedicated to selling parts for guns. I compared the diagram to the parts that could be ordered and discovered I could actually purchase a complete AK47 to assemble. Costly as hell, thinking total of parts was around $20K or so. Cheap, considering you can't buy them. Still, it was accessible legally.

                        Weirfan

                        You just proved my point. An across-the-board ban of firearms would create a situation where the lawful would comply, and the criminals (obviously) would not.

                        Good luck with that 6-iron! And hopefully you wield yours better than I do mine on the course! lol

                            rsvman So, you think when an intruder comes in with a gun, they're just gonna leave you alone as long as you don't bother them?

                              rsvman Seems like it would be elementary, but apparently it is not.

                              You know what they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

                                PA-PLAYA Address the real problem.

                                Can you post that again so I can "like" it again?

                                  johnnydoom Its not that it was so easy to obtain the guns, it was that in this person's mind, it was easy to justify using them.

                                  This!!

                                  Many, way too many, shootings right here in my area. Gangs, Mexican and blacks(proven). Drive-bys that have even killed innocent children at backyard parties. Quite possibly all of these shootings/killings were done with illegally owned guns as the ones that are caught all seem to have priors. Where do they get those guns? I should ask, who sells them the guns? And the law should also be asking that question of everyone that is caught. Bad as it sounds, if I were the judge, I'd give leniency to the guy that gives me the name of the seller. I'd give the seller life. Every time. If the law says I can. Death penalty if I could!!

                                  Only 1 time locally have they got the seller. 16 yrs.. Not near enough, but this is from damn judges that put repeat drunk drivers back on the road. Every time.

                                      PA-PLAYA But gun owners are always the villain in these discussions for some strange reason, not the criminals committing the crimes.

                                      Again, never said that. Nor even think it!

                                        Par4QC The parts are legal to purchase if they are to be used in semi-automatic form. Not sure of the law, but I think everything except the lower receiver can be legally purchased through normal means. The lower receivers, or AK47 (if the receiver is produced in the U.S.) may only legally be purchased through the same channels as other gun purchases. You can even lawfully make your own lower receiver if used as a semi-automatic. However, the sale or possession of parts that allow fully automatic fire, or the act of altering or producing one to fully automatic fire is illegal. The only full automatics that are legal for citizens at large to own are those produced prior to passage of the firearms owners protection act of 1986, and that requires a special federal stamp, although I don't think it is that expensive. Legal to own fully automatic firearms are tremendously expensive as the supply consists of only those still around since before 1986. The bump stock was a loophole around all of that as it was claimed to be marketed for a different purpose.

                                            johnnydoom The bump stock was a loophole around all of that as it was claimed to be marketed for a different purpose.

                                            From what I've read, gun owners must have been in the dark about those things; not quite sure why they were. Stores sold out very quickly after the Vegas shootings.

                                                PA-PLAYA and no court in this country would find me guilty of defending myself and my property if a confrontation ensues

                                                Be careful... in NJ you'd got to jail and likely be convicted. You must attempt to run screaming from your home before you are authorized to shoot an intruder. You have to be physically cornered with nowhere to run before you can shoot an intruder. Talk about some bullshit. I'm so glad I left that hell-hole behind. Now, I'm in OK, where you can shoot someone breaking into your neighbors house and not get indicted for it!

                                                  PA-PLAYA

                                                  "Illogical rational." Interesting. What's logically rational about justifying having a gun in your home when statistically the odds of being invaded by an intruder are much lower than someone known to the household being shot? Reading your posts you have a lot of irrational fear of being home invaded.

                                                  Why don't I read anywhere here from gun rights advocates why civilized countries with less guns / tougher gun laws have fewer gun deaths, and countries like ours with more guns and weak gun laws have more gun deaths? Again, I guess we Americans are inherently more violent. 🤔

                                                  Isn't it logically rational to conclude that the ever more escalation of gun violence / deaths in this country is directly related to the amount of guns out there and the easy access to them?

                                                      Par4QC While an intruder may be armed, their intent is to merely rob you, in most cases. If you should suddenly confront them, armed also, you just endangered your family, I'm thinking.

                                                      Par4QC johnnydoom but basically to anyone that argues that criminals with guns aren't really a threat, but that lawful gun owners are somehow a threat.

                                                      Again, never said that, either one. Just a 'mind study', if you will.

                                                      Oh, you said it. Not word for word, but you definitely said it.

                                                            Par4QC

                                                            I completely agree 1000%.

                                                            I am not against strict gun law enforcement. I'm not entirely against banning "gun shows" where a lot of these type laws are either completely discarded or fudged to make a sale.

                                                            I don't have an issue with that whatsoever.