Which hybrids and lofts?

Bigborgel · 2017-05-17T17:54:40+00:00

As my swing speed continues to diminish, I've given up on FW's, and play 2 hybrids -Ping K15 4h and a 5h, they're 23 and 27 . I hit them well, but they are n...

Sneakylong

Par4QC

In our Senior Men's Quota Group we have guys who are in their late 50's to mid 80's. We have one guy who plays the White tees (~6400) and 3 or 4 (including myself) who play the Gold tees (~6000) with the majority playing the Silver tees (~5600). And I think we have 4 guys who play the Reds (~5200).

Again, in a Quota game the tee you play will be reflected in your Quota. You play a shorter tee, then in theory and in practice you should score better, therefore you'll have a higher Quota.

In a perfect world ideally if you have players playing off different tees you should see players hitting similar clubs into greens.

So if I'm playing the Golds and someone is playing the Reds we each should be hitting a similar club into the green (ideally).

But as we know golf is far from perfect. On a couple of holes on our course the Gold player may have a hybrid into the green where the Red player has a wedge.

But again, whatever tee you play from will be reflected in you Quota. So, the guy who is now playing the shorter Red tees instead of the Silvers can score better and now has a higher Quota.

So, to answer your question, no there is no problem playing different tees in terms of the Quota game. We do have a couple guys who play the shorter Silvers who definitely are long enough and should be playing the Golds.

But again, all that means is they have shorter clubs into the greens, but they now have a higher Quota to make.

We try to limit the Silvers for guys who are 70 and older, but we make exceptions depending on the individual.

For me personally I don't want to play day in day out having wedges into most of the par 4's. Ideally I want to play from a tee where I can possibly hit every club in my bag in 18 holes of golf.

For example my average Quota is ~ 25 and I'm an 11 capper. So I'm playing a tee that suits my game.

puttnfool

Sneakylong So your "quota" that you're referring to is sorta like your Stableford goal? That makes much more sense.

Bigborgel

I'm playing a 12 driver, get good height and some run-out. When I hit a 10.5 driver, it flights much lower, more dispersion and no more distance. I'm going to try a longer driver shaft, no hopes for this, and go see my club pro about hitting a 7 or 9 wood properly. This may have a chance. All the gomers in my group are in their 70's and we play green tees, (5600 Yds).

PA-PLAYA

Bigborgel

The longer shaft might take a few rounds to get used to... but it's definitely worth a shot. I wouldn't go any lower with the driver loft if I were you... 12º is a good loft for those of us who lack enough swing speed to get the ball in the air. I actually played a 13.5º driver (Ping) for the longest time, but over the years my swing go so steep that I had to go back to the standard 10.5º. Then last summer I added an inch to the shaft, increased the loft to 11.5º (adjusted) in my current Callaway, regular flex. I hit it very well, probably the straightest club in my bag.

Also... what is the flex of your driver? You could probably manage a senior-flex shaft without any issues, but of course it's not just a matter of swing speed, but your tempo too. If you have a quick transition at the top you could run into issues with a quick snapper with a weaker shaft flex.

Don't be afraid to try different things. It would certainly help to get more comfortable with a 7-wood option with the fairway wood, providing that you can spend some time working on it. I struggled with fairway woods for years, up until last fall, when I finally decided to devote some practice time figuring out ball position and developing more of a sweeping motion versus a steeper angle of attack with my hybrids that I'd always preferred. Shallowing out your swing a tad, with proper ball position, will certainly help. And the longer shaft with the 7-wood should, in theory, give you a little more distance. With a little work you could probably make it your go-to club on those longer approach shots.

Sneakylong

puttnfool

Yes the scoring is based off the Stableford scoring system with variations. Some do 4 points for a birdie and some to 3 etc.. On Wednesdays the Head Pro runs the Pro Shop Quota game and he does different scoring. 3.5 points for a birdie and .5 points for a double. He does 4 for an eagle and we do 6 points for an eagle etc..

In a Quota game you can do it one of two ways. Start from zero and see how many points you can accumulate or start from your handicap and accumulate from there. They're basically the same.

We adjust after every round to prevent sandbagging. Adjustments again are varied from game to game. The Pro Shop adjusts differently than we do for example. I won't get into it, but hopefully you get the idea.

PA-PLAYA

Sneakylong

I actually like the concept. Played it with my weekend group for several months years ago, before we dwindled down to only a foursome (who played from the same tees). The way we managed it (within the group) was if you failed to meet your quota, your quota adjusted 1 point lower for every 3 points you were short. On the other end, if you met or exceeded your quota, the same condition applied with increasing your quota 1 point per every 3 points you were over.

It was, for all intents and purposes, a good way to manage more of a true round-to-round handicap versus waiting two weeks for the official handicaps to update (at least for those who played 2 or more times per week).

Stableford (as it has been explained to me anyway) was originally designed for (net) 0 points awarded for double bogey or worse, 1 point for bogey, 2 points for par, 3 points for birdie, 4 points for eagle. But my club traditionally plays adjusted Stableford (like the guys on tour play). Scoring (net) is minus 1 point for double or worse, 0 points for bogey, 2 points for par, 4 points for birdie, 6 points for eagle.

I actually prefer the standard Stableford, which is what was predominately played in most non-medal competitions over the in the UK. And although there were a few exceptions now and then, the original Stableford scoring most always equaled out to the actual according handicaps.

It's a good system, especially if you have several guys whose distance varies from player to player, meaning that it really doesn't matter which tee box one plays (as long as the quota has been established from the usual tee box a golfer opts for).

You can also do individual, team, etc. So it's a very versatile concept.

Sneakylong

PA-PLAYA
Minus 3 and worse you go down 1. In the Pro Shop game they move you up 1 for every 2 over your quota.

My brother in law's game they use handicap and it's for 9 holes (working men's group). If you use handicap, everyone starts with the amount of points equal to your handicap and whoever gets the most points wins etc..
For 9 holes you'd just cut your handicap in half.

Sometimes we do a team game in conjunction with the individual quota game. Only with the caveat that no individual can do worse than minus 3. This way in someone has a terrible day they can't drag down the team.

For example. In a 4 man team quota game. Player one is plus 2, player two is plus 4, player three is minus 1 and
We adjust minus 2 to plus 2 your quota stays the same, plus 4 and 5 you go up 2, plus 3 or more you go up 3. player four is minus 6. Since you can't do worse than minus 3, player four's score is adjusted to minus 3.

So the team combined is a plus 2 (2 + 4 = 6 - 1 = 5 - 3 = 2).

A Quota Game is a great game when you have large disparities in handicaps and you have players playing different tees, as you say as long as they stay on that tee. If someone wants to move to another tee they need to re-establish their quota from that new tee.

We used to do 4 greenies (closet to the pin) and 18 skins (birdies or better). However, what happened there was because of the large disparity in handicaps we gave strokes in the skins game. This ended up causing problems. Fairness was unachievable.

Long story short we now have 2 greenies and two skins (one of each on each 9 holes). The compromise we came up with is we break ties on the skins with the lowest Quota player winning the skin.

The thinking was the better players have a better chance of winning the greenies and the high quota players have a better chance winning a skin.

But again, Quota in and of itself is a very fair game to play when you have a large group of golfers with a large disparity in handicaps.

Here in Florida in the winter we could have 20 plus players and in the summer we could have anywhere from 6 to 15 guys.

We play 3 times a week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday). We're one of the first groups off and most of us walk. We're usually done by 10:30 - 11:30 am.

It's a $5.00 game and depending on the number of players we pay off between 2 and 5 places. Greenies and skins are always $3.00 each.

It's a great game where you can show up and play when you want and basically as a single golfer play with familiar faces.

DC300

I would look like a FAR better player in the quota or Stableford game. I love the idea. I get to play my style, which is to say reckless and stupid... and those holes that I really blow up on, which are about 2-4 per round get evened out with the eagle I usually drop on a par 5. Sign me up! My problem with a to par system is the 3 on a par 5 doesn't counter the 9 on a par 4 very well hahaha. Screw this total strokes idea, I like to play for fun, which to me is going for it on every shot. I just bought hybrids to hit off the tee because I realize if I'm ever going to "score" by our traditional standards, I can have those 3 holes where I lose one (or 3) balls off the tee. I tried petitioning for 100 ft high solid walls down the left sides of all fairways, but even Trump seems to be having issues getting these walls built, what choice do I have?

Bigborgel

THREADJACK, !!!! Sneaky, why didn't you start a new thread for your quota game? It has nothing to do with my topic.

PA-PLAYA

Bigborgel

Yeah, it happens. I think I played a role too. A thought was made about potentially playing a different tee box as a solution for you, then it expanded as to how that could work.

My apologies.

Sneakylong

Bigborgel

Sorry about that. Originally my Quota reference was in regards to guys in our group moving up to a shorter tee because of losing distance. So it was originally related to your post.

It started to go sideways because Puttnfool was confused and evidently never heard of Quota. He took it as 'Quote' and thought it had something to do with greens hit in regulation. It took on a life of it's own from there, which happens from time to time.

Anyway, the consensus seems to be if your swing speed is diminishing you need to move up if you are hitting too many long clubs into greens. Case closed, maybe?

Bigborgel

PA, that's OK, it just seems like the quota issue deserves its own thread.

puttnfool

Forgive me, but the TJ is already well underway.

This is the reason why I thought it was about GIR

Sneakylong We have some guys in our group who were struggling to hit greens in regulation. We have a minimum quota of 14.

and

Sneakylong Puttnfool was confused and evidently never heard of Quota. He took it as 'Quote' and thought it had something to do with greens hit in regulation.

and given the definition of "quota" 🙂

quo·ta
[ˈkwōdə]
NOUN
a limited or fixed number or amount of people or things, in particular.
synonyms: allocation · share · allowance · limit · ration · portion · dispensation · slice (of the pie/cake) · percentage · commission · proportion · fraction · bit · amount · quantity · cut
a limited quantity of a particular product that under official controls can be produced, exported, or imported:
"the country may be exceeding its OPEC quota of 1,100,000 barrels of oil per day"
a fixed share of something that a person or group is entitled to receive or is bound to contribute:
"the Faeroe Islands' commercial salmon quota"
a person's share of something that must be done:
"they were arrested to help fill the quota of arrests the security police had to make during the crackdown"
a fixed minimum or maximum number of a particular group of people allowed to do something, as immigrants to enter a country, workers to undertake a job, or students to enroll for a course:
"they demanded a quota for women on the committee"
(in a system of proportional representation) the minimum number of votes required to elect a candidate.
a person's share of a particular thing, quality, or attribute:
"an Irishman with a double ration of blarney and a treble quota of charm"

... particularly the "a fixed share of something that a person is entitled to contribute" and "a person's share of something that must be done".

If you say someone had trouble hitting greens in regulation and then the very next sentence say that there's a minimum quota of 14, I think the logical thing to think is that the requirement is to hit 14 GIR.

Everything would have been clearer if the reference had been to Stableford scoring as it really had nothing to do with GIR.

Sneakylong

puttnfool

A Quota Game is a very common gambling game in golf. It would be like mentioning a Nassau Game related to golf and someone coming back and assuming it had something to do with playing golf in the Bahamas.

Googling 'Quota' and 'Nassau' without mentioning a relationship to a competitive golf game leaves you lost in the weeds.

Anyway, you learned something (what a Quota game is) in this thread which is always nice. If you've never heard of a Nassau Game here's a hint. Don't Google 'Nassau' and report back that Nassau is the capital of the Bahamas. 🙂

Anyway, it's all good.

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