pellmell No, because I know what to look for objectively in a fundamentally sound swing, which all the players you mentioned have.

Was Miller Barbers swing fundamentally sound? It’s how you arrive at impact. How you get there is irrelevant. Every swing has idiosyncracies.

Here’s what I look for. Is there downswing on plane. Meaning is it below their shoulder and ideally close to the same plane as their trail arm. Don’t care where their head is or where their feet and shoulders are pointed. Not interested in lag, forward shaft lean etc..

Most hackers are too steep. The shaft is too vertical coming down. Harry Vardon said he felt like he was swinging down towards his right heel. Ben Hogan told Gary Players it was impossible to swing too flat.

Then Nicklaus comes along and the upright swing is in vogue.

Also, many ‘good’ golf swings have a hand path over the backswing path, but the shaft remains in an area that would be considered on plane.

BTW Gabe of Let’s Play Thru is what is considered on plane coming into impact. And impact is all that matters. There is no such thing as a fundamentally sound swing.

Bob Brue hits good shots in all kinds of contorted positions. He dispels many of the so called fundamentals.

https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=you%20tube%20bob%20brue%20golf%20swing&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d4d363ba,vid:BCN0pn51nMA,st:0

    So, this dude lives in Tampa, "Via Baltimore and Washington DC". That tell me all I need to know about him.

    Mike - Make that new driver in Lefty and I'll break the internet with my review!

      My two mentors as a kid Manuel De La Torre and Bob Brue believed and taught Ernest Jones teachings of swing the club head and the body follows. It matters not what the body does in any position you can hit a good golf shot. It's that the swing must be balanced and centered on any golf shot. Mr. De La Torre 2016 and Mr. Brue 2017 passed away a year from each other and are missed by many who used their information in enjoying the game of golf.

      I have tinkered with other swings but always come back to the the tried and true.

      I am not sure much about the YouTube content creators golfing ability nor should we care as he is just creating content. He is just adding to his monetary algorithm of YouTube by creating some "stir". The more clicks the better. One could surmise that Mr. YouTube really may like or give a passing grade to the SMT Hollow Body Irons but he gave them some negative comments to get more "clicks". Do we really care what Mr. YouTube says about the irons? Or is everyone a social media sheep? Herd mentality. ☺

        scotts33 When I first joined the PGA in 1978 (ugggghhhh) i was introduced to the John Jacobs method and taught at the school at 16 years old. It is WONDERRFUL!!

        Immediately I learned the Ernest Jones method which I also LOVE. Oddly, there are similarities.

        Then came Jimmy Ballard and the connection system. FANTASTIC

        And, lastly, too late to the party, I met Manuel DeLaTorre at Milwaukee CC and teaching a PGA continuing education program in Florida. This man is an absolute genius. He was as gracious as he was wise. A brilliant gentleman.

        Take a look at all of their books. You will be very glad you did.

          Sneakylong I assume he’s still at Carrollwood in Tampa, which is private.

          FWIW I've played Carrollwood a # of times and was told it's semi-private. If you stay at the "condos" next door, which we did on a few trips, you can play and it wasn't super expensive IIRC. We still played staying at nearby AirBnB's, but we did book through a place that can get you out on some private courses. It may be similar to my course which is private, but they lease some land from the town and part of that deal requires offering limited tee times to the public.

            DonM I've been enjoying his videos for the most part. Doesn't have a pretty swing, but seems to have a true love of all things golf. Surprised he didn't like the irons, but maybe he felt he needed to finally trash a product?

            He is funny sometimes because he'll say he's looking for a certain yardage from a club and then doesn't get it (possibly because it's only 50F out), but still says it's what he'd expect and likes it. He's driving a Tesla in 1 video so obviously taste is subjective and I don't trust everything he says.

              KCee FWIW I've played Carrollwood a # of times and was told it's semi-private. If you stay at the "condos" next door, which we did on a few trips, you can play and it wasn't super expensive IIRC. We still played staying at nearby AirBnB's, but we did book through a place that can get you out on some private courses. It may be similar to my course which is private, but they lease some land from the town and part of that deal requires offering limited tee times to the public.

              Yeah, I played it once maybe ~ 18 years ago. They have 27 holes there. When I played there they were putting in an island green on one of the holes. Back then it had just been bought by a group that had money and were fixing it up. Carrollwood was always considered a nice high end area of Tampa.

              Sounds like you might have stayed at the Emerald Greens condos which is right there. When we played it we got on thru a member who paid for everything. Any food, drinks or snacks went on his tab. They wouldn't accept any money from us. Very exclusive when we played.

              https://carrollwoodcc.com/

              https://egresort.com/

              • KCee replied to this.

                pike51 So, this dude lives in Tampa, "Via Baltimore and Washington DC". That tell me all I need to know about him.

                Yeah, that tells you a lot. 🙄

                Sneakylong Yes we stayed at Emerald Greens a # times (used to be a good deal), but booked it through some golf travel place. It's pretty much the only way to get tee times far in advance for a trip. The second time we stayed there we actually didn't play the course because it wasn't in good shape the previous trip so we told the golf travel agency not to book it. The last few times we went it was in very nice shape.

                I have a few shirts from there and we ate and drank there so they had no problem taking money from us peasants. We played a few fully private courses down there, but we usually avoid that as you generally can't eat or drink at fully private clubs. They also frown upon 2 groups of 4 taking nearly 4 hours to play....we're quick at our club, but slow when we travel lol.

                  KCee

                  https://www.oldmemorialgolfclub.com/club-history

                  One of the most exclusive clubs in Tampa is Old Memorial. It was built back in 1997 by the founders of Outback Steakhouse. One of my former golf buddies sons caddied there. You can make a nice living caddying there.

                  Ever get a chance to play there go for it.

                  • KCee replied to this.

                    SMT Take a look at all of their books. You will be very glad you did.

                    In Jacobs, Jones, Ballard, and DeLatorre you've named the four teachers I respect the most. I have the books of all four! Is it true that Jacobs could watch ONLY the flight of the ball and from that diagnose the player's problems and suggest the correct cures??? He must have been AMAZING!!!

                      fatshot In Jacobs, Jones, Ballard, and DeLatorre

                      Percy Boomer is another teacher from Ernest Jones's era who was widely regarded. Read where Jimmy Ballard was asked who's book other than his own that he liked. He said Percy Boomer's On Learning Golf: A Valuable Guide to Better Golf Hardcover – June 27, 1946. One of Boomer's essentials among others was turning from a fixed pivot (turn in a barrel).

                      These guys figured it out without technology. It's like a lot of things, there really isn't anything new, just history we don't know.

                      Sneakylong That looks like a niiice track. We did the Tampa trip quite a few times and are probably done with that area for a while unless some great package deal comes up. This year was our 2nd trip to Orlando area, but the first was just 4 of us at the Disney courses. If we get the same AirBnB we may do Orlando again. All 8 guys had their own bedroom and bathroom and we had a pool and hot tub for less than two 2 bedroom/bathroom condos at Emerald Greens. Just need to book before the Spring Breaks start.

                      KCee Surprised he didn't like the irons, but maybe he felt he needed to finally trash a product?

                      This is exactly what I am saying. If he said every club he tests/reviews and put content (490some videos) on his YouTube channel was great then his regulars (subscribers) would put less emphasis on his findings. Hence he said some iffy things to create more clickbait. Us G'Buzzer's all know hot chicks (Paige Sprianac, etal) on YouTube golf channels create a hellva lot of clicks/clickbait.

                        Sneakylong It’s how you arrive at impact.

                        It's how you arrive at impact... consistently.
                        I fixed it for you.

                        By the way, Miller Barber had a fundamentally sound swing and the fact that you think otherwise tells me all I need to know about your myopic view of a golf swing.

                          scotts33 Us G'Buzzer's all know hot chicks (Paige Sprianac, etal) on YouTube golf channels create a hellva lot of clicks/clickbait.

                          While I may know that people do, I'm not a fake boobies clicker, myself.
                          Nor do I ever think a cart girl wants to F me over in the woods!!

                          I've been spoiled twice with the real things.
                          And...... I never go into the woods.

                          😉

                          pellmell By the way, Miller Barber had a fundamentally sound swing and the fact that you think otherwise tells me all I need to know about your myopic view of a golf swing.

                          Never said that. Actually implied just the opposite. Barber's swing makes my point. He has a crazy looking backswing (which doesn't matter at all), but gets into a great on plane downswing and impact position.

                          You had a red line on Gabe's downswing showing he's on plane well below his shoulder and close to being right in line with his right forearm. That's a great position to hit the ball from.

                          So let's forget about all this 'fundamental swing' nonsense. The downswing is all that matters. All the rest is bullshit.