Sneakylong Again, having the ex PGA players themselves selling the propaganda of the Saudi’s.

The rhetoric of them saying that growing the game of golf including free golf for women etc. in order to try and soften the Saudi’s bad image on human rights atrocities is the very definition of sportswashing.

I have to admit, after the problems with all 'nationwide' media the past 2+ years, I do not watch much, only read blurbs on the internet when they might catch an eye.
So, I will ask if there is any recent, meaning let's say, in the past year or so, of proof of these atrocities still going on over there? Or any proof that things are, in fact, getting much better. Not heresay, not propaganda, from either side. Facts of change?

      Par4QC Or any proof that things are, in fact, getting much better. Not heresay, not propaganda, from either side. Facts of change?

      Yes. I’ll try to look up a few for you.

        Sneakylong We’re going to Chick-Fi-A for lunch. I’ll ask the person if getting sports stars to talk up a country with human rights atrocities while being paid outrageous sums helps soften their image. Lol

        Assuming they know what the word atrocitiy means.😂 But the more apropos question is would you watch a sporting event that was sponsored by a country with human rights atrocities regardless of propaganda.

        Again, assuming they know what propaganda means. Lol

        I notice you keep sidestepping the question. Let me answer it for you, no you can't or you would have answered it. That's why I think it's nothing to get upset about.

            garyt1957

            Sportswashing is an attempt to mask the real issue. So they’re closely related. Whether it works is a red herring. And there’s much to get upset about.

            Here’s another straw man analogy lol to highlight the different camps. John Gotti was a ruthless killer. Nevertheless some thought he wasn’t that bad because he did a lot of good things in his neighborhood. Image cleansing at it’s finest. Lol

            One being every 4th of July he did a big shindig in his neighborhood complete with a huge fireworks display.

            In one camp you had people refuse to go to Gotti’s block party because they didn’t want to show appreciation for a killer.

            Then you had the other camp with people justifying going by saying there’s lots of killers in the world and besides they liked fireworks. Lol

            I know what camp I’m in. 😉 Time to take a break from the Hamster wheel.😄

                Sneakylong Sportswashing is an attempt to mask the real issue. So they’re closely related. Whether it works is a red herring. And there’s much to get upset about.

                I just can't understand how you can say whether it works or not is a red herring. Why get upset about something that doesn't even work? And you must agree it doesn't work or you'd name at least one time where it has.

                Sneakylong Then you had the other camp with people justifying going by saying there’s lots of killers in the world and besides they liked fireworks. Lol

                And yet they still knew he was a killer, it's not like his block party erased his past image, people just chose to take his money, food and entertainment and then when they left they still knew he was a killer.

                    We preach from such high and lofty positions sometimes, conveniently forgetting our own indiscretions.

                    But it's natural for humans to elevate their own righteousness at the expense of others. If it's natural for humans, then it must also be natural for nations consisting of humans. We love to compare ourselves against the worst of the worst sometimes. It makes us feel good about ourselves so we can go on justifying our behavior.

                    We can claim the high road all we want. But history tells a far different story of a nation that has (on occasion) needlessly stuck its nose into other worldly affairs and caused unspeakable tragedy and suffering. Being "less evil" doesn't mean evil doesn't exist.

                    It's good to be reminded sometimes that we too live in houses made of glass.

                      PA-PLAYA

                      Must’ve missed my post on this. Want a good history lesson on this countries transgressions regarding human rights atrocities, watch Netflix’s Who We Are: A History of Racism in America.

                      Really excellent. Can’t recommend it enough. We have a horrendous history regarding human rights. But we’ve progressed. And historically we haven’t always lived up to our rhetoric. But eventually we’ve tried to expand human rights although with many setbacks.

                      So, although not without fault. No need for this country to feel self righteous. No country has done more in fighting for human rights around the world than this country. And we should always be on the side of expanding human rights.

                      However, thru happenstance we have a Supreme Court hell bent on reversing decades of advancements in human rights. And we have one of our two political parties embrace a cult like figure that espouses anti democratic values and wants to take the country towards illiberalism / autocracy.

                      So we shouldn’t take for granted what we’ve gained. Again, it’s a constant struggle. Arguing over a thing called sportswashing will pale in comparison.

                        sdandrea1 Grateful We're Not Dead"

                        LOL
                        Considering your audience, maybe keep it simple for them to remember.
                        What's Their Names Again?
                        The Whozatts?
                        Thingamajigs
                        Thingamabobs
                        Never Mind

                            Correction:
                            Saudi Arabia is one of the largest shareholders of Twitter.

                            Sneakylong Mixed emotions on this. He's a two time champ and he hasn't done anything illegal. But I get they want to bypass all the crap that would come with him being there. I can't blame them for that.

                                garyt1957 The R&A doe not like 'schmoozing'. Does not want Norman coming and stealing the likes of Ben Curtis from their ranks.

                                🤣