Good iron article

Typhoon

For everyone who thinks modern are loft jacked only to sell distance. This article and the Dave Neville podcast in the article should explain what I’ve said before…. It explains all the tech that goes into clubs now and why you can’t keep the same loft.

https://golf.com/gear/irons/do-equipment-companies-decrease-loft-for-more-distance/?amp=1

sdandrea1

Counter point:Their example point was that the BB iron needed to be at 43 degrees because of the tungsten weight that is low and rear. If it was traditionally lofted with that weight in place, the ball flight would be too high and "you'd LOSE DISTANCE". I think they made the point that they ARE selling distance and they need to put weight in the right place for the jacked lots to have the correct trajectory. I sounds like a smoke screen to me.

Typhoon

sdandrea1 You have to listen to the podcast too and see how things like tungsten have improved forgiveness and overall club performance. You guys miss the point on club design and improvements. The tungsten weight is part of the whole forgiveness and performance improvement. Not just “they put weight there for distance.”

SMT

sdandrea1 Incorrect

DonM

There are a lot of seniors who would be better off if the lofts were still old school, but with all of the tech that gives more height.

Typhoon

DonM if you hit the ball too low that’s correct, you could have the loft tweaked. But again, the improvements to the club necessitate the lofts to be changed… it’s an equal part of the whole puzzle.

SMT

DonM Not exactly true as you wrote it. Virtually EVERYONE needs more loft. The longer the ball is in the air, the longer it will fly.

Club design , or in this case LOFT, is a function of design.

"Old school" lofts in some of the new school designs would be unplayable for many.

ptjn1201

I've been carrying 2002 Bridgestone Access VP-02 irons the last three years or so. Titanium faces, a lot of tungsten in the soles (they spark on the driving range mats). The 29 degree 7 iron goes way up in the air. And that extra tungsten in the sole lowers the COG so that thin misses go just about the same distance, and you don't get that jarring pang in the your hands when you do. Purists may not approve, but for us non-masochists who don't need that level of feedback to know we hit a clunker, they're great.

sdandrea1

SMT Incorrect

I was quoting the text from the article. So you're saying the article is incorrect?

fatshot

Good points, and I will listen to the podcast when I have time today. At my age (76), I have been gravitating to more game improvement type irons as a hedge to advancing age. I figure that my ball-striking is never going to be as good as it once was, and I need all the help I can get to keep making as SOLID contact as I can to keep from losing distance as I age.

I recently bought a set of 10 year old (?) Hogan Edge CFT irons which have titanium faces (which I figure will
enhance the perimeter weighting of the irons). In checking the specs before buying,
I learned that the PW (or "Equalizer") loft is 46 degrees, as opposed to 44 in the Adams a12OS irons that I've been playing. One objection I had to the Adams was that they were a bit TOO wide in the soles and harder to play off tighter lies. Another factor I considered was that if the Hogan wedge was 46 degrees, that made for a better transition to a 50 or 52 degree gap wedge. The Hogans also transition from one club to the next in perfect 4 degree increments.

I've had the Hogans out for only one round so far (due to weather), and it was so windy that day that it was really
hard to say whether I will hit them the same distances as my Adams or not. Common sense tells me they may
be a half a club shorter due to the loft differences, but, if I hit them more consistently than other clubs, who cares?
I may be able to add 1 iron at the longer end of the set (I think I'm a better iron player than a hybrid player anyway!).
I guess what I am saying is that after all these years, it may be sinking in that the irons are for ACCURACY and
hitting the greens, so if it says "6" on the sole instead of "7" what difference does it make if the ball goes on
the green?

SMT

fatshot Great point. You should take sole design into account for the course or courses that you most play.

LogicalOne

fatshot so if it says "6" on the sole instead of "7" what difference does it make?

🤨

Well, what it means is that the set of irons is obviously not a very good set and I need a new set.

For even asking that question…..🤨

Oh, and I actually agree with you…..😊

Typhoon

fatshot

Fatshot, at age 76 you and a lot of people here might benefit from lighter irons. Steve has gone lighter and like he just posted, his Ping Zings feel like anvils. So with all the improvements to new irons, instead of everyone everywhere bitching about lofts, embrace the improved designs and go lighter. You will hit it higher and further with probably with a little more spin.

I know 99.9% of people on here won’t get fit for irons but I think with some many options available it’s the only way to get a combo that works right. A lot of “Last Tee” people if they won’t bother getting fit should at least look at going light.

Par4QC

I may have a slight chance to think more on this later today. But....if all that was written/said is true, why did they go with 'old school' lengths, on those new lofts/designs?????

That 7i which used to be 37" is now 37.5", in most cases. So, that 'new' 7i, is basically an old 6i, with almost the same loft as that old 6i. And BTW....the head weights also follow that pattern; the new 7i weighs what the old 6i did!!

Is it real, or is it Memorex?????????????? 🤔

sdandrea1

Typhoon Steve has gone lighter and like he just posted, his Ping Zings feel like anvils.

Once you get used to ultralight clubs, you can't ho back. The distance increase and forgiveness on the XXIO iron/hybrid design is pretty remarkable.

fatshot

Typhoon Fatshot, at age 76 you and a lot of people here might benefit from lighter irons.

I've thought about that....My Adams set has 55 gram graphite shafts. The Hogans have 75 gram graphite. Both
are Senior flex. As I said, I've only played one round with the Hogans on a very windy day, so distance was inconclusive, to say the least. My plan is to start next season with them, and play them for a while and take
stock. I'm not above swapping out the lighter graphite shafts from one set to the other. With what little I
paid for each of the two sets (bought used), I view them more like "component clubs" with OEM names. So, I
wouldn't hesitate to swap out the shafts from one set to the other, or installing something totally different in the
Hogans, which are the set I REALLY like and want to play with!

Par4QC

Typhoon might benefit from lighter irons

But John, these new irons are NOT lighter. Read my post. They are the same lengths/weights as the old irons, with the numbers 'stepped'. There is no diff in lofts/lengths. It is only the number that has changed( I'll say for 'most' OEM irons now).
At that, I'm smart enough to figure that out and always order my irons, or build them, +1/2". My GW/AW becomes my PW, or sometimes, even my 9i. Depending on the strength of the lofts I'm using. IOW, I'm basically close to using 'old school' irons, with modern day heads. Suits me, works for me. And, I am certainly not 1/1,000,000!!

If I am looking down at an iron, that looks similar to a putter, that damn thing better say 4 on the sole....not 6 or 7!!! THAT, is fucked up. I don't care how that head was made, as far as weighting, ams cannot get it off the ground. Why do you think so many of us older fellas are now just going with 8i and under in our bags. Yeah, we can still hit a 5i, and we do.....it's labeled as 8 today. ferchrissakes

Rickochet

sdandrea1 Once you get used to ultralight clubs, you can't ho back. The distance increase and forgiveness on the XXIO iron/hybrid design is pretty remarkable.

So, how many offerings for lighter irons besides XXIO are there or is XXIO it? Are the heads lighter of just the overall club weight?

SMT

sdandrea1

Well..... The start of the second paragraph reads this...
"What is loft jacking? Well, some people believe that iron designers make lofts stronger than they used to be, or need to be, for the sole purpose of increasing distance.".

Some people also believe in Santa Claus, Ghosts, Bigfoot and UFO's. Doesn't make it so.... AND, Stronger lofts do NOT increase distance.

Did the author or any reader of the article EVER shoot paper clips with rubber bands when they were kids????

The rubber band, when stretched to it's fullest extent gives the paper clip it's SPEED.

If you keep your rubber band and paper clip LEVEL to the floor, your paper clip will hit the floor rather early and start skidding to a stop.

No, unlike this idiotic comment in that article I simply ask you..... How would you use that VERY SAME rubber band , that cannot be stretched any further for the second half of that paper clip FURTHER???

I'll wait for the answer.

SMT

sdandrea1 Since you asked... The article's 4th paragraph says....
"Hm, maybe the hecklers have a point?"

Which is a true statement if you talk about the "heckler's bitching about "loft jacking" but it has NOTHING to do with distance and EVERYTHING to do with iron design.

The article goes on to give the floor to Callaway designer who explains the use of tungsten. A brutally hard steel and a VERY heavy material which affords us the ability to do so much more for people and their games.

The writer of the article NEVER revisits "loft jacking" until his last sentence which doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything...... I contend that the guy who wrote the article is a hack.

sdandrea1

SMT

So, the manufacturers are increasing the lofts and redesigning weight distribution to make the clubs hit shorter? I guess my argument is that most text in club marketing and advertising seems to, at the very least, imply that the ball will go farther with their design. They are selling distance.

Eguller

Par4QC They are the same lengths/weights as the old irons

Ummmm. Not the P790 irons that I just bought. Modern length, modern loft, but lighter overall.
I sent them back for adjustments if you remember. Overall, about 7-9 grams less heft.
Not bad, just a different philosophy of design. YMMV.

Par4QC

sdandrea1 They are selling distance.

But, it is a 'comfortable' distance.

😄