NFL THREAD

sdandrea1 · 2021-09-27T12:40:17+00:00

Last night's Packers v 49ers OMG.

propman

No doubt Brady was (maybe still is) great. Doubt very much he would have been great if he had been drafted by another team ie bears.
The Patriots were just a well oiled machine - ownership, coaches, players, scheme.
May not see the likes of it again.

Sneakylong

propman

You make some good points. Ownership matters. Coaching matters. But in football and maybe in all of sports the position of quarterback matters the most.

Yes, if Brady had been drafted into a bad organization he may have not achieved anywhere near what he did. But fate intervened and he entered the best scenario for him.

An owner who was good, a coach who was good and maybe by happenstance they recognized a talent that someday would change NFL history.

Everyone can choose what was the determining factor. Brady had showed his talent at Michigan. But the coach alternated QB’s and Brady’s talent was diminished. But anyone paying attention would see that it was always there.

Belichick gets credit in that he chose Brady in the 6th round. And the rest is history. Each’s history will forever be intertwined.

But no one will ever convince me that Brady didn’t bring more to the table than anyone in the Patriots success. I grew up on Boston sports. There’s just a few in the pantheon category in Boston sports.

In my lifetime. Bill Russell, Carl Yastrzemski and Bobby Orr come to my mind first when I was a kid. Later Larry Bird, Tom Brady and David Ortiz come to mind as coming thru in the biggest moments.

I saw Bill Russell play several times in person. He is the Mount Rushmore in Boston Sports. No one will ever touch his championship record. He’s number 1 in my book.

And for me Tom Brady is a close second. No one will ever touch his record of 7 Super Bowl wins in 10 Super Bowl appearances.

Greatness is seldom recognized in their lifetime. It’s only when compared in hindsight that their greatness is acknowledged.

Detractors of Tom Brady have been trying to diminish his accomplishments for several years. I’ve said that the Pats success is 75% Brady and 25% Belichick. I’m now rethinking that percentage. Lol

I think the jury has been in for awhile now. We won’t see the likes of a Tom Brady certainly in our lifetime. Maybe ever, such as a Bill Russell.

Great legacies in sports have one thing in common. You know it when you see it. I’ve been fortunate to see a few.

garyt1957

Sneakylong Bellichek deserves more credit than you give him. I'd go 60/40 in favor of Brady. But Bellichek came up with great game plans and doesn't he double as GM? There were a couple SB wins where the defense was at least as important as Brady

Par4QC

garyt1957 My opinion is that you and Sneaky both may be a bit off with your praises.
Brady was good there. Belichick is still fairly good there, when he has the right 'under coaches'.

The Patriots have always been a decent team, prior to both of those people on staff. They did go to Super Bowls before them, more than once. But, they were never consistent until Brady came along and got the chance to show he could play(Bledsoe injury).

The main key to the consistency has been the owner, Kraft. He gave Brady and Belichick what they needed to become what they became. Great for them, that other teams did not see the formula. Hell, they still don't in most cities....like Chicago.

Sneakylong

garyt1957

Heard that argument. And there have been great defenses with average quarterbacks that have won Super Bowls. Several come to mind. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson for example.

I’ll never forget Brady’s first Super Bowl where John Madden expects Brady to just play conservative and surprises Madden when he doesn’t when the game is on the line. And goes on to win it.

Belichick will even admit that it’s a players league. Brady has had only one hall of fame receiver in Randy Moss. Gronk will soon follow him.

Brady has made household names out of no name receivers his whole career. I could on and on, but again the glaring difference is when Brady went to the Bucs during the pandemic and had to practice in a high school field with his receivers on his own.

New team, new coach, new players, new system, a pandemic with little organized practices. And went on to take the Tampa Bay Succaneers to win the Super Bowl.

Yeah, the jury is in imo.

sdandrea1

Par4QC The Patriots have always been a decent team, prior to both of those people on staff.

Not always.......... (1990). 😉

Par4QC

sdandrea1 Well shit, they really do suck. It WAS all Brady. 😄

When any QB has only 1100 yds. rushing, in 23 seasons, with those W-L records......that should tell the true tale.
He was merely 'a part' of really good teams.
He was not....'the team'. As is being seen this season.

rsvman2

When the Patriots made the Superbowl in 1985, the entire country was shocked. They were not always a dynasty. And, of course, they went on to lose that game to another team that is, let's say, not quite as strong now as they used to be. Lol

Par4QC

rsvman2 They were not always a dynasty.

No, but they had really good teams prior to Brady and Belichick. They are (historically) a winning team, no matter who has been on it, or coaching them.

garyt1957

Par4QC When any QB has only 1100 yds. rushing, in 23 seasons, with those

I'd almost bet 90% of QB's in the Hall Of Fame have the same lowly rushing stats. If you're a great QB you don't need to run.

Sneakylong

Par4QC

Depends what you mean by good. In the 1960’s they played at Fenway Park and had QB Babe Parilli and a wide receiver named Geno Cappelletti. They never won anything.

As was said they went to the Super Bowl in 1985 only to get crushed by the Bears. Tony Eason was the QB and the Hall of Fame offensive linemen John Hanna said he should’ve been wearing a skirt in the pocket. Lol

Tony Eason was drafted ahead of a guy named Dan Marino in the 1983 draft. lol

They had some decent teams in the 1970’s, but never went anywhere. Jim Plunket was a great quarterback, but got killed because they couldn’t protect him.

Steve Grogan was a decent QB. They had a great running back named Sam Cunningham. They came close to going to a Super Bowl in 1976, but lost to the Oakland Raiders in the Playoffs.

The Sullivan family owned the team since the AFL’s inception in 1960. Only to have one of the sons bet the family fortune on Michael Jackson. The town of Foxboro wouldn’t even allow them to have a concert at the stadium. Lol. How do you lose money backing a Michael Jackson concert tour? Lol

Then they had some terrible owners. Fortunately a guy named Robert Kraft bought the team in 1994. He hired Bill Parcells and they went to the Super Bowl in 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. Only to get beat by Brett Favre and the Packers.

Bill Parcells then got pissed because they drafted as their number 1 pick a wide receiver named Terry Glenn. He famously said, “if they want you to cook the dinner then they should let you buy some of the groceries.” Lol

Exit Bill Parcells, enter Bill Belichick. Belichick drafted a guy named Tom Brady out of Michigan in the 6th round. Brady was last on the depth chart for QB’s with the Patriots.

One day Kraft happened to walk by Brady and Brady introduced himself to Kraft. Bob Kraft said I know who you are. You’re Tom Brady our 6th round pick out of Michigan.

Tom Brady proceeded to tell Bob Kraft that he would be the best pick the Patriots ever made.

And guess what. He was right. The rest is history as they say. And that’s a brief history of the Boston / New England Patriots.

A long history of a losing franchise until Tom Brady arrived.

garyt1957

Par4QC No, but they had really good teams prior to Brady and Belichick. They are (historically) a winning team, no matter who has been on it, or coaching them.

Somebody's memory is failing him. The Pats record starting from 1986 till Brady took over is 106-133. They had 6 winning seasons and 8 losing seasons and one 8-8. If you want to include ancient history and go back to their first season in 1960 it's 16 winning seasons and 19 losing seasons with 4 even. There record was 280-324.

propman

garyt1957 and I would bet these non running QBs had excellent off lines. Just a guess on my part.😃

sdandrea1

garyt1957

1990 was 1w, 15L....ugh......

Par4QC

garyt1957 No memory loss here. My point is that no 1 person makes any team. And even after Brady is long retired for good, the Patriots will continue to win games, have winning seasons, and win championships. They did it before he came, they are doing it after he's gone.

And, I did say a 'historically' winning team. They average almost 10 wins per season, through 56 yrs.!! Yeah, including that 1-15 year. And the 16-0 year.
They are winners. They will continue to be. After Brady is dead and buried.

garyt1957

propman and I would bet these non running QBs had excellent off lines. Just a guess on my part.

And they get the ball out fast, as Brady does.

Sneakylong

Par4QC No memory loss here. My point is that no 1 person makes any team. And even after Brady is long retired for good, the Patriots will continue to win games, have winning seasons, and win championships. They did it before he came, they are doing it after he's gone.

And, I did say a 'historically' winning team. They average almost 10 wins per season, through 56 yrs.!! Yeah, including that 1-15 year. And the 16-0 year.
They are winners. They will continue to be. After Brady is dead and buried.

Let's not rewrite history. lol

They made it to one championship game prior to the NFL - AFL merger in 1970. That was in 1963 and got creamed by the San Diego Chargers 51-10. They won 4 Division Championships before Brady. 1978, 1986, 1996 and 1997.

They won two Conference Championships before Brady in 1985 and 1996. Both times they went to the Super Bowl and got creamed.

They had 9 playoff appearances before Brady. 1976, 1978, 1982, 1985, 1986, 1994, 1996, 1997 and 1998. Plus the one in 1963 prior to the merger of the AFL and NFL.

7-10 record in the Playoffs before Brady with no Super Bowl wins.
As was stated their record was 280-323-9 from 1960-2000. That's a losing record. They won diddly- squat before Brady.

With Brady their record was 219-64. That's a 77% win percentage. Brady went 30-11 in the Playoffs. That's a 73% win percentage. 10 super Bowl appearances with 7 wins. That's a 70% win percentage.

Belichick's record with the Patriots without Brady is 77-84. One guy can make a difference and the record is clear. Another Boston sports legend that made a difference was Bill Russell.

Check out the Celtics record before he arrived. Russell won 11 Championships in his 13 year career with the Celtics including 8 in a row (1959-1966). Won every Championship in the 1960's except for 1967.

One player can make a difference. Tom Brady and Bill Russell are examples of just that.

garyt1957

Par4QC And, I did say a 'historically' winning team. They average almost 10 wins per season, through 56 yrs.!!

Now your math skills are failing you. You said they were a winning team before Brady, so you can't use wins they got when Brady was there. From the start of the franchise until Brady got there they are averaging 7 wins a season with a record of 280-324 in 39 seasons. Hardly 10 wins a season.

Par4QC

Sneakylong I would really hate to have you on my team. You seem to be a 'me guy', not a 'team player', with that attitude about Brady.
At your age, you should well know.....it does not work that way.

I was an athlete in school. 'I' never won anything. Even while getting the individual gold medals/blue ribbons in track, 'we' won. Sometimes we lost.

Sneakylong

Par4QC I would really hate to have you on my team. You seem to be a 'me guy', not a 'team player', with that attitude about Brady.
At your age, you should well know.....it does not work that way.

I was an athlete in school. 'I' never won anything. Even while getting the individual gold medals/blue ribbons in track, 'we' won. Sometimes we lost.

Not about me. Numbers speak for themselves. As a side note about Brady. He's the ultimate team player. You never hear anyone who played with him say anything bad about him. A tremendous leader.

Former Steeler linebacker James Harrison who went to the Patriots at the end of his career expected to hate Brady. Ended up loving Brady. lol

Running back great LeSean (Shady) McCoy who's a regular on the Fox Sports 1 show Speak played with Brady near the end of his career and won a Super Bowl with Brady in Tampa Bay. Loved playing with Brady and speaks very highly of his leadership skills.

Whatever "it" is Brady has "it". The Succaneers won a Super Bowl because of Tom Brady. Drew Bledsoe was a good quarterback with New England. Tall and had a strong arm, but didn't have "it".

Brady has "it" in spades.

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