ode Yeah, supposedly all of the people playing Soft Feels and such are already losing distance by doing that. I was just trying to say that if that is your ball, you're not going to lose distance under the new rules.

    Weirfan I remember back 35 yrs. ago when I trained horses. Canada always had the 'secret' drugs.

    Please Pete.....stay off them! 🤣

    Weirfan Who knows by 2030 what equipment advances will come about to offset that and might even be hitting it further by then

        DonM Just my guess from a business point of view.

        I am not talking about distance. I don't give a rat's ass.
        I am talking about having a choice of what ball, at an affordable price, that I want to play.
        IE. a urethane ball that is not a marshmallow
        Is price collusion a possibility? Will they still make the balls that are currently available but just call them "illegal?"
        Just curious as I will have enough balls stocked up in my closet by then that I won't give a shit.
        I also have enough high lofted driver heads to not care when they fuck those up too. LOL
        🙂

            Spuzz when they fuck those up too. LOL

            .....and they will, eventually.

              For those who like to get worked up, I believe that the next characteristic to be looked at and limited will be MOI and overall MOI. Hints are out there. 🤔

                Eguller For those who like to get worked up, I believe that the next characteristic to be looked at and limited will be MOI and overall MOI. Hints are out there

                Did more than hint at it. R&A’s Martin Slumbers said that the next thing they’ll look at is driver forgiveness. And not about making it more forgiving.😏

                  Sparky I have a couple I could part with.
                  Only $128/ea. shipped.
                  🤣 If they only go down to 400cc, I have a nice Launcher 400 for a mere $117. Free shipping as always!!

                  The 02 head is 401 cc., iirc.. Would still fall into the 400 limit with the 'allowance'.

                    Sparky I hope they roll back driver size to 350cc, I'd better get ready by stocking up on SMT Shinnecocks. Or that Root Beer head.

                    Let's go hickory, persimmon and gutta perch. That will dial shit back.......

                        sdandrea1 Let's go hickory, persimmon

                        Pro Baseball mandates wooden bats……so, good idea. 🏌️‍♂️🏌️‍♂️🏌️‍♂️

                          I’d love to see more than pushback. If the ball manufacturers and the Professional Tours used their leverage and aligned and said this is a bad idea and we’re not going to abide by this then they’d have the upper hand.

                          But just saying we disagree and want more discussions is useless at this point. Why the professional tours allow an amateur regulatory body to dictate what they must do is puzzeling.

                          Especially when it’s detrimental to the stated ‘good for the growth of the game.’

                            Sneakylong Especially when it’s detrimental to the stated ‘good for the growth of the game.’

                            I can’t imagine why someone with the USGA would state that? “Good for the game” sure, I could understand that. They’ve made multiple comments about returning skills/shots to the game, but “growth”? If there’s some logic there, I’m not following it.

                                Stu1961

                                Growing the game is always part of their rhetoric.

                                https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/members/whats-next.html

                                “What’s Next? Here’s How the Game Can Continue to Grow.”

                                https://mediacenter.usga.org/press-releases?item=122604

                                “USGA Increases Commitment to Growing the Game Through PLAY9 Program”

                                https://mediacenter.usga.org/index.php?s=34180

                                Grow The Game

                                “Annually, the USGA directs investments millions of dollars toward breaking down barriers of entry into the game. In collaboration with our industry peers and Allied Golf Associations, the USGA is focused on a number of national and localized efforts that are leading toward a more welcoming and inclusive game.

                                https://deloitte.wsj.com/cmo/how-the-usga-is-teeing-up-growth-01653068280

                                “How the USGA Is Teeing Up Growth
                                The USGA is working to engage more fans through participation, diversity, and innovation initiatives.”

                                    Sneakylong
                                    Oh, I thought your quote was in regard to the specific action of rolling the ball back as being a measure taken to grow the game. Obviously not. While they do want to grow the game, their primary mission is to ensure a stronger future for the game of golf. Returning skill sets must, in their opinion, be in that best interest.

                                        Stu1961

                                        Yeah, the problem is they’re not on the same page as 99% of golfers. Everything I’ve read says that once you’ve been playing ~ 3 years or so you’ve probably plateaued and won’t get much better. Handicaps not decreasing that much over the years bears that out.

                                        From MyGolfSpy in an article from 2014.

                                        https://mygolfspy.com/labs/study-overall-golfer-performance-by-handicap/

                                        “Only 10% of golfers who track their handicap break 80 on a regular basis. Let me say that again. Only 10% of golfers break 80 on a regular basis. 49% of golfers break 90 on a regular basis. 86% of golfers break 100.”

                                        Also, the majority of golfers don’t keep a handicap.

                                        https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jon-sherman-945497ba_there-are-roughly-65-million-golfers-in-the-activity-7096840834267897856-Y52b#:~:text=Less%20than%201%25%20of%20them%20are%20scratch%20or%20better.,a%20lot%20of%20missed%20putts.

                                        “There are roughly 65 million golfers in the world.
                                        Less than 1% of them are scratch or better.”

                                        The USGA governs like those numbers are reversed. With 99% of golfers being scratch or better.

                                            Sneakylong
                                            Oh, I think they are more than aware of stats like these. The majority of golfers probably plateau because they don’t play often enough, and/or train and practice, or even care. They also probably don’t don’t know or play by the rules, or even keep handicaps. I can’t blame the USGA for not catering to them. Plus, if your stats are accurate, and the improvements to equipment over the last 35 years have not led to these golfers having lower handicaps - then the ball rollback should not effect those handicaps either. You can’t bemoan a loss of something which you never took advantage of.

                                            I do not believe their primary goal is, as many have stated, “protecting par”. They could do that with 8000 yard courses, or many of the alternatives mentioned in this thread. I think they believe that equipment (balls primarily, then club sweat spot/forgiveness) has made the game easier at all levels and that it has leveled the playing field (like a muddy track in horse racing). Lower pro scoring averages (even with lengthened courses), number of first time winners, the drop in age of winners, the number/frequency of sub 60 rounds … lots of stats bear this out. They WANT to make it more difficult again so that the cream can rise to the top more frequently. Stars sell. The fact that this could also result in protecting par is simply gravy. Well, IMO.

                                              Sneakylong 20putts.

                                              “There are roughly 65 million golfers in the world.
                                              Less than 1% of them are scratch or better.”

                                              The USGA governs like those numbers are reversed. With 99% of golfers being scratch or better

                                              Not sure you saw this as I edited my post. Regardless we can agree to disagree as in a lot of cases where we find ourselves on opposing sides.

                                                  Sneakylong
                                                  65 million golfers … and only 3 million with USGA handicaps… sounds about right. I’m guessing that that 4.6% cares a great deal more about the game than the “bottom” 95.4%

                                                  And only about 1% of people can dunk a basketball … should they change the rules of basketball and lower the hoop too?

                                                  Want to ensure mediocrity at best - cater to the LCD. Make the game even easier and turn the PGA into a rock, paper, scissors league where the winner is determined by who got the luckiest that week and/or made more putts. While we are at it - increase the cup size to 8.5” because most golfers suck at putting too.

                                                  The USGA is just removing the training wheels/gutter bumpers. And doing so like they are removing a bandage from a toddler. 5% isn’t nearly enough (unless other changes are coming). I recently saw a chart showing Greg Norman’s club distances while he was at his peak … and couldn’t help but think there was something very wrong with mine, at age 60, being two clubs longer.