Bowl System Heading Toward Extinction?

Toulon · 2018-12-08T20:19:26+00:00

This is the GREATEST thing to happen for college football in a long time. More and more top players are foregoing their opportunity to play in a meaningless...

johnnydoom

Why does college division I need to be like every other form of American Football in the world? I like the difference. I’ll watch bowl games this year. I won’t watch the pro playoffs this year, I haven’t seen a CFL playoff game, I have not seen a high school playoff game, have not seen a division II or III playoff game. You have all of those at your disposal to enjoy, why do you need to get rid of the bowls? The bowls don’t prohibit a playoff or an expansion of the playoffs.

johnnydoom

Toulon I guess if I can sum up your argument it might help my understanding: You think college football is leaving out potential champions by not including enough schools in the playoffs and that the bowls are prohibiting expansion of the playoffs. You think that football, and anything else described as a sport should only be played to determine the best team or individual among a group of teams or individuals.

If that is your thinking, then I need to be able to understand how sweeping the bowls away allows for an expansion of the playoffs. If you expand the playoffs to 8 or 16 slots no team is going to turn down those slots in order to go play in the Las Vegas Bowl. Also, I need to understand why sports must be performed among a group, and cannot just consist of two competitors. In my mind, Syracuse and West Virginia playing to see which one can beat the other is still sports. If you and I play a golf match to see which one is better it is a sport. One team or person winning the contest over the other can be an end all by itself. But if I boil down what you're saying to it's essence for NCAA football, I would say the ideal season would look like this. You start the FBS Football season with each team playing 6 games to determine the best 128 teams as closely as possible. Week 7 there are 64 games, Week 8 there are 32 games. 9 - 16, 10 - 8, 11 - 4, 12 - 2, 13 - 1.

Toulon

johnnydoom

Yes...your Syracuse and WVU has merit IF it's not played POST-SEASON when both teams weren't good enough for the actual playoffs. I've asked you multiple questions without answers. Are you going to watch the New York Jets and Cincinnati Bengals play a game POST season for 25th place in the NFL? Why would you when there's a playoff system going on that matters? What relevance does a Bengals Jets game post-season have? None. Now, if you slap a fancy name on it and get a big sponsor and put it on TV and back it with tradition a guy like you might watch. A guy like me realizes what a charade it is and isn't going to watch it.

It's even worse in college football. If a team is good enough it should be in the CFP. Not some NIT like bowl system that if a team wins means NOTHING. Even in the joke NIT when you win you advance. You don't in the bowl system. You play an exhibition game to do what? Shill for corporations.

johnnydoom

Toulon I don't care whether a game is in season or not if it is a real game with both teams trying to win. How many times do I need to say it until you stop ignoring it? Just because you think it is a joke doesn't mean I have to. I have no stake in whether the Jets or Bengals win a regular season game. No team has stepped forward and offered to give me anything for watching them play, whether it be in the regular season, playoffs, or any other time. They are playing for themselves and inviting me to watch for entertainment if I am interested.

Toulon

We're having a hard time defining "real" game. It's real in the sense that it is played between two teams just as a Bengals Jets game would be a "real" game after the season, but it is NOT real in the sense that it matters toward anything. It's irrelevant.

Below, you will see a college head coach explain what should be happening in top level NCAA football. Again, it is people like YOU who stop this from happening. People exactly like you who consider these games "fun" and "entertaining" while robbing true fans of sport the opportunity to see REAL games.

Here's Washington State head coach, Mike Leach, on this subject... This college head coach GETS IT!

johnnydoom

Toulon I don't understand how I am robbing anyone of a bigger playoff. You're saying that because bowls are profitable a larger playoff system isn't possible? The corporations that are currently supporting minor bowls will dump them and bankroll any new playoff games that are added. I'm not holding anything back. The chamber of commerce people in the affected areas will scream bloody murder, but I'm not doing anything to actively resist it. However, if the regular season schedule isn't reduced, they'll be beating the kids to death adding playoff games against top-tier teams to the end of a 12 game season. It will be extremely punishing for those kids to play 3 or 4 games straight against top 16 teams. Remember, the pros are the biggest and the best of what comes from these colleges. Not everyone, even at Alabama, is capable of taking the kind of punishment the pros go through in a 3 or 4 round playoff.

johnnydoom

I will say this. I'd love to be in on the discussion coach Leach has with his University Board about removing one or two home games from the schedule so they can match what division III does. I'd bet they'd start talking about removing 20% of his salary and allowing him to make it up with incentives if his team lands in the top 16. Washington State's home attendance in 2017 averaged about 40,000 per game, which is actually pretty pathetic compared to most top FBS schools and slightly below the average of 42,108 for all schools. The average attendance for division II - 3,273, division III - 1,873. It's pretty easy to see why division II and III schools don't mind a 10 game schedule too much. But you either have to remove about 120 games from FBS to make room for 12 (if a 16 team playoff), or you have to abuse the heck out of the kids that make it to the final 4.

Toulon

JD: However, if the regular season schedule isn't reduced, they'll be beating the kids to death adding playoff games against top-tier teams to the end of a 12 game season. It will be extremely punishing for those kids to play 3 or 4 games straight against top 16 teams. Remember, the pros are the biggest and the best of what comes from these colleges. Not everyone, even at Alabama, is capable of taking the kind of punishment the pros go through in a 3 or 4 round playoff.

Me: Huh? Explain how HIGH SCHOOL KIDS do this? Explain how D3 and 1-AA kids do it?

You are robbing people like me by watching. People like you do watch bowl games and that's why they continue to be played. Once enough stop watching the NCAA will institute a playoff to get people watching again.

All this is so simple I honestly don't understand why we even have to debate. It has to do with letting go of a tradition that is ridiculous and should've never started in the first place. It's sports fan Stockholm Syndrome...No! No! Don't take my bowls away! I love my office pool! Ummm....you'll get something back that is SO MUCH BETTER it'll blow your mind. We live in this climate because of people with your mentality. Change your thinking. I'm not judgmental...I just want what is right and fair for everyone involved and it is NOT a bowl system.

johnnydoom

Toulon Why are you saying someone has to take a bowl away? Just make the playoff games and leave the bowls alone. They'll dry up on their own if they have to compete with playoff games.

High school, and division II and III college are by and large not playing in front of the audiences that FBS is, they aren't playing to attract the attention of pro scouts (how many former division II and III players are in the NFL?), and they don't have the incentives to put their own bodies at the risk the kids at the top schools do. Yes they get hurt as is the nature of the game, but I would argue (without any facts since there are no numbers to look into), that they do not have as much incentive to put their bodies on the line as the guys hoping to make pro contracts in the near future do. But division II and III are on a 10 game schedule already for the most part. I don't know about most high schools. My son's played 12 and the state has an 8 team playoff for his division - so the state champion did play 15 games in their format. The equivalent for FBS would be 12 games, no conference championship, and an 8 team playoff.

sdandrea1

The current bowl system involves 4 teams in a tournament for the national championship and all the others playing so the TV ads will sell. 🙄

Toulon

...but, JD...your point was about the toll on the bodies. HS kids do it...and have for DECADES.

Honestly, the bowl games are such a scam I can see why goofy things like Camping World Bowl becomes reality. The folks at Camping World must be thinking...if people are dumb enough to watch these meaningless corporate shill bowls, they're certainly dumb enough to buy our product. Signed on the dotted line.

johnnydoom

Toulon High school kids do it, but at an entirely different level. The level of violence I’ve seen at Mississippi State practices is far above what I’ve ever seen in any actual high school game. The skill level of the players, particularly on defense, tends to result in much more well directed hitting with greater transfer of force more often.

johnnydoom

Toulon I’ve said many times in this thread that I’m fine with a bigger playoff as long as the number of games is kept the same for the eventual finalists. This year, the finalists will have played 14 or 15 games. If they want to do an 8 team playoff next year, they just have to eliminate the conference championship games and nothing else would change. If they want to do a 16 game playoff, eliminate one game from every team’s regular season schedule also and nothing else would change. Both moves would negatively impact school and conference revenues in big ways, but you’d get the satisfaction of seeing the number 1 - 3 seeds kick the heck out of 14 - 16 seeds most years while 4 - 8 and 9 - 13 beat each other to death in the first round. And many years are likely to have 4 or 5 SEC and/or B1G schools that have already played each other within their conferences. This year 13 of the 16 teams would come from just 4 conferences.

Toulon

johnnydoom

Conference Championships games are STUPID. Eliminate them...yesterday.

Season should be mirrored after what they do in every other league.

One of these things is not like the other and it needs to change to reflect sports...not corporate shill world.

ode

In the end d1 College football is the anomaly. Every other division has a real playoff!

D3-32 teams
D2-32 teams
D1AA-24 teams

They settle matters on the field!

NFL-12 teams

High School-every state I know of has a huge playoff. In Wisconsin you barely need to be over .500, and I don't even know how many divisions there are but there are several.

I know there are lots of excuses to be made. Change is tough, but its around the corner IMO and I can't wait. We'll be kicking ourselves for having to wait so long! And the money that stands to be made. Big $ being left on the table by not expanding!

ode

And for the record I'm not for bowls becoming extinct, have at it with bowls! I'm for playoffs deciding a champion, a real playoff where the #/of teams included is legit!

Guess what the following number represents-

3.10077519% (I guess this would be an easier # to take a guess at vs. .0310077519🙂

First one to guess gets a 👏

johnnydoom

ode The diameter of Nick Saban's anus?

ode

johnnydoom lol, no but a very interesting guess!

LBlack14

johnnydoom

Can’t wait for the last game of the regular season when several teams at the top realize they can rest their starters and still make the playoff.

Toulon

johnnydoom

Why would they do that? They'll have seeding on the line. If they lose they drop down and play a tougher team. Who would do that?

ode

johnnydoom I'm all good with that, but they may shoot themselves in the foot with losing and getting a worse seed, losing out on a bye, etc etc. College football, at least right now, is based on rankings, which would determine a teams seed, it would be silly to jeopardize this by sitting players.

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