For the Experts

Par4QC

I play in a tourney every summer in my hometown. On 1 Par 3 there is a huge HIO prize...$10,000! Every year they put the tee markers at the very back of the tee box. This area is never used during the season and it is really crap grass(which they leave severely long/thick), along with there being a sloping (more of a falloff) where you have to stand with the right foot, or left given the swing side. A very awkward stance/swing for just about everyone. If I were to go 2 club lengths behind the markers, there is a cart path within that 2 club placement. Beyond the cart path is the fairway/rough for the 9th/18th hole.

Could I take the 2 club length behind the markers, onto the cart path, then take relief from the cart path by dropping into the fairway? If so, would I still be able to tee up the ball?

fnufan

Par4QC

11-4b requires that you play from the teeing ground.

letthebigdogshunt

I am not a rules guru, but I doubt you can take relief on the tee box. But since you are no longer on the tee box, I doubt you could tee it up anyway. JMHO

rsvman

I'm not an expert, but I'll opine, anyway.

Never, ever heard of being able to take relief from a cart path from the tee box. So, I'd have to say no.

Par4QC

rsvman Never, ever heard of being able to take relief from a cart path from the tee box.

Me either! That's why I put it out here for those that know about such things. Sounds like a crazy question, but I'm sure there have been stranger.🤔

Not so little tourney as they do have a couple 100 entries every year. Just 1 18 hole round for everyone.
They run it under USGA rules, with a couple 'local' rules thrown in. On this particular hole everyone has to play from the same tee, Open, Sr., Ladies.

mikeintopeka

Par4QC On this particular hole everyone has to play from the same tee, Open, Sr., Ladies.

I'm certain that is required by the insurance company that writes the hole-in-one policy. Why would such a crap tee box be used unless it is the only Par 3 that meets the minimum yardage requirements? Most tournament organizers WANT someone to win the big enchalada so they'd communicate with the pro shop prior to have the markers placed at the minimum yardage stipulated in the contract.

Par4QC

mikeintopeka Not for sure, but I do know a lot(maybe all?) HIO insurance companies require a min. of 150 yds.. This hole is shorter by a few yards; it's as long as it can be at the point where we tee off. Unless we go to the cart path scenario. It is a tiny green & I do know I can hit it with my 140 club, easily.(when I don't go in the water, after hitting the overhanging tree limbs😜)

Maybe they set it up so crappy as they would have to pay OOP, and they could ill afford that. To my knowledge, in the 60+ yr. history, no one has canned one.

Par4QC

fnufan Thought I had read it correctly, and could find no other decisions on it either.

Maybe next year I'll wear a right shoe with built up sole.

Thanks!

rsvman

fnufan Yes, but you are allowed to tee your ball up two club-lengths behind the markers.

I think the problem here is that there should NEVER be a cart path within two club-lengths of a tee marker. In this situation, it is obvious that they have just put the tee markers where they don't belong; they are not actually on the teeing ground per se.

Having said all that, I'm still pretty sure that you can't take relief from a cart path on the tee of a par 3, and I'm sure the local rule for the tournament specifies you have to tee from the markers, even if they are not on the actual teeing ground.

I mean, it raises another kind of interesting question. What if somebody moved the tee markers? Just put 'em wherever they wanted to put 'em, just to punk people? If you are playing the course, and you find the tee markers not on the teeing ground, and in some place that's obviously not where they belong, are you obligated to play from the markers, or would you just tee it up somewhere on the teeing ground?

fnufan

rsvman Yes, but you are allowed to tee your ball up two club-lengths behind the markers.
Indeed. There is nothing to prevent you from playing from the path.

Par4QC

rsvman Just put 'em wherever they wanted to put 'em, just to punk people?

When it's a HIO hole, there is an 'official' standing right there at all times. If they have ins., and the markers were moved inside the required distance....no payout from the ins. co. or the tournament.

PA-PLAYA

Two things normally come into play here, at least based on my experiences.

The first is that HIO contests typically occur during scramble formats, which are not governed by USGA rules. So the 2-club length rule per USGA rules does not necessarily apply.

Secondly, the insurance company offering HIO insurance for these type events have certain requirements. Requirement numero uno is typically having the tee box from an exact distance to the hole. The other requirement is having someone there (usually from the host course or a volunteer designated by tournament organizer) to insure that each tee shot is struck from within the designated teeing area to witness each shot/result.

Again, in my experiences, there is no leeway from the conditions of the tournament, assuming it is a scramble/non USGA rules apply type event.

Par4QC

PA-PLAYA This is a reg. tournament, not a scramble.

Maybe next year I'll be teeing it up in the middle of that cart path. Or somewhere within the 2 club limit where I can stand without falling back on my swing. 2 yrs. running I've pulled the shot into the water....this yr. it cost me 2nd place, Sr. division!

PA-PLAYA

fnufan

Unless it's an event that doesn't acknowledge USGA rules and is governed by local rules, which most scrambles are.

I've never played in a scramble governed by the USGA. Someone who has - break the ice here. It'd be the first time ever.

PA-PLAYA

Par4QC

Then that's not fair to you, or anyone else playing, if it's a regular tournament under USGA rules. You, or anyone else, would be more than entitled relief per the rules.

But I would just question why they'd put a tee box in that situation that would create that need. Is there not a tee box further back that they could otherwise use?

Just seems unfair to me to put you (and the field) in that situation.

fnufan

Under what USGA rule would you give relief outside the teeing ground and not nearer the hole?

PA-PLAYA You, or anyone else, would be more than entitled relief per the rules.

PA-PLAYA

fnufan

tee box on cart path

BOOM

fnufan

PA-PLAYA

If you are required by the rules to play from the teeing ground what rule permits you to take relief and play from outside the teeing ground?

PS what is a tee box?

sdandrea1

Be careful about choosing a questionable teeing spot. The Hole-in-One Insurance claim adjusters will be using a fine tooth comb before paying out. I had a buddy who won a car in a charity event involving 3 free throws from 3 different spots (foul line, top of the key, and half court). He made all 3 just beating the buzzer - all video recorded. The Insurance company came out and measured the court and claimed it wasn't regulation length, refusing to pay. I would guess they didn't measure the court before selling the policy to maybe attempt an out. He had to lawyer up, but he got his free car. The license plate read FREETHRO.

PA-PLAYA

fnufan

You're splitting hairs here. Yes, we bow before your rules greatness. Most of us can also understand what it feels like when the "teeing section" has all this room, and yet the "markers" are placed in an area that forces a golfer to take an awkward stance.

In this particular instance, it sounds like the contest hole was on a par3 that wasn't the best option for a contest hole having to meet a specific distance requirement. I assume there were at least a couple of other par3's that would've been the better option.

But here I am, having to explain this to you. And you further insult my intelligence by asking me what a fucking tee box is.

Rules gurus do serve a good purpose much of the time. And we do thank you for clarifying things. But sometimes rules gurus come across as self-righteous pricks who enjoy rubbing one out while chastising people for using terms like "tee box."

Do you even play golf? Or are you one of those who sit at home on a nice Saturday and instead of playing golf - you sit at home with your finger on the speed dial button on your phone while watching the golf coverage on tv, waiting for something that looks improper to happen?

Par4QC

PA-PLAYA In this particular instance, it sounds like the contest hole was on a par3 that wasn't the best option for a contest hole having to meet a specific distance requirement. I assume there were at least a couple of other par3's that would've been the better option.

The tournament is played on a 9 hole/twice around course. 2nd 9 has different tee markers, for the most part. This hole has a completely different, uh, well.....fuckit….tee box.😄 About 130 or so.

The other Par 3 is over 200, the 1st 9, and around 180 the 2nd 9. It also has a nice HIO prize package for the 1st 9.

kelco9

This is what I imagine(trying to reduce chance of HIO).

It is surprising there is not that 2 club lengths behind the markers; the reason for the original question about the free drop.