I have poor muscle memory and have no idea what I'm doing out there most of the time. My brother-in-law is big student of the swing, and he's always trying something different. He suggested I watch 1atomicgolf and I was watching some of his stuff before his DaVinci Code (which was Channel Lock's predecessor). JH is a hoot, as he often claims that " I can't hit it any better than that," but you usually can't see where the ball lands, so you have to take him at his word. I have tried Channel Lock, and since you play the ball back in your stance and come way inside, it might be easy to groove a swing, as you can't do too much else and still hit the ball. But I found I got about 1/3 pushes way too far right, 1/2 pretty good, and the rest were poor contact hitting too down too much along with the more than occasional duck hook. I found it much more effective with shorter clubs than longer -- to me, it wasn't at all helpful with driver.

I've tried a little of Count Yogi, who was a character and a half and taught a lot of stars back in Hollywood's golden age, and he preached playing the ball forward and swinging up the line. But as one of my swings often looks nothing like the preceding one or the next one, I get similar levels of success no matter what I try. Alas.

Sneakylong I've watched tons of JH's videos and he seems to be a really good guy, but he would try to demonstrate all these different swings and they all looked the same to me.
I remember one swing you HAD to do something. I believe it was bend the left arm straight up. I mean, this was the whole concept of the swing. I posted that in the video he didn't actually do it, his left arm was straight. He answered but it "feels" like I bend it. I didn't argue cause like I said he seems like a really good guy. He's in great shape to for 70+

      I switched to the Brian Manzella swing. Back when he came to FGI, but before the discussions got too heated, I printed out an overview of his instructions and changed his left/right identifiers to back/fore so I could understand them as i am a lefty. Initially with my irons, it greatly reduced how often I sliced. I even use it with my woods and my driver. Although I may not get maximum distance from my driver, I will take 90% straighter and 240 from driver (I typically am at worst in the 1st cut of rough) over in the next fairway and 275 any day (which happened 3 times a round). I do have a hook come into play now, but I weaken my grip and that seems to work.

        I also did a lot of drills from the little red book, though by now, I am not sure you can call them non traditionl.

        ronin74 It's funny, he now says he was wrong all those years. He now advocates pulling the handle of the club up into you somewhere around impact,ifI remember. He's made it big since FGI, he now is often featured in Golf Magazine.

          scotts33
          A buddy of mine switched to his own version of Stack and Tilt a few years ago, and it made a huge difference in his game....he went from a low 80's player to a mid 70's player in one season! So, I decided to try his method. I was getting a little frustrated with it, so went searching on YouTube and stumbled across Jim Venetos' videos. For some reason, his method clicked with me. I don't think my setup is as extreme as his, and I think I rotate my body a little more than he does, but I've been pretty successful with his method. The biggest thing, IMO, is that I DON't shift my weight to my back foot as much as I used to, keeping my left heel on the ground and simply rotating my upper body. I've become a more consistent ball-striker, and keep the ball in play much better than I used to.

          I think as we get older (I'll turn 73 in a couple of weeks), we sometimes need to re-examine our methods b/c the body can't do the same things it could when we were younger. I think some of these alternative methods help simplify the movements of the golf swing for those of us who because of age, flexibility, or declining athleticism can't hit it quite as well as we used to. I'm intrigued by both the single plane swing and the "Channel Lock" method. In fact, I may watch some of these videos and see if I can incorporate any of their ideas into my funky old swing! Thanks for your post.....

              fatshot I think as we get older (I'll turn 73 in a couple of weeks), we sometimes need to re-examine our methods b/c the body can't do the same things it could when we were younger. I think some of these alternative methods help simplify the movements of the golf swing for those of us who because of age, flexibility, or declining athleticism can't hit it quite as well as we used to.

              Yes!!!!

                The Kirk Junge method at the top is the same single plane swing Moe Norman and Todd Graves teach/taught. Jerry Heard also taught a very similar method, except he set up with his weight already on his back foot, so the backswing had no weight shift, just the turning of hips and shoulders and cocking the wrists. I use the single plane method. Sadly, if you don't get to play or practice very much, any method of launching golf balls any significant distance relatively straight is difficult.

                  therod
                  I'm intrigued by Moe Norman! There are a few videos of him giving clinics and demonstrating his swing to be found on YouTube. He looks like a freakin' MACHINE! My only misgivings are the fact that I would have to bend way forward in order to extend my arms as he does, and I'm afraid of what that would do to my back (it's bad already!!).

                      fatshot To fully appreciate the Moe Norman method their are two technical details to address. Because the club is held in the palms, grips must be thick and lie angles adjusted upright.

                          pellmell

                          I have a regular buddy who went to the Todd Graves school (Moe Norman Natural Golf). He ordered his Callaway irons from them. Yep, big azz grips and upright like angles.

                              I like to see others succeed with different approaches, but I have not been disciplined (or perhaps interested) enough to practice to the point where I can get really good at any technique. Any way you can get the ball into the hole without cheating is fair game.

                              Single length is a hard concept for me to get my mind around. The reason is that when my swing is on, my contact with all irons seems to be good and my struggles are short game, and sometimes also driver related. Perhaps my swing would be "on" more often with most clubs being a single length, but at this stage in life, and knowing I won't put in the time, I'm just not really willing to experiment. Perhaps when my flexibility changes noticeably my mind will change on that.

                              I have experimented with most of these concepts and the problem with all of them is loss of distance. They all work better for high swing speed players.Moe Norman was the best ball striker of his time but a very short hitter.

                              In my experience for any golf swing change whether it's a PGA traditional or conventional or a non-traditional it takes about 5 months of repetition to effect a change. Most don't stay the course long enough to see the efforts pay off.

                              pellmell
                              Well, at 6'6" tall and a XXL golf glove requiring +1/8 oversized grips, my equipment already meets those criteria! Maybe I'll experiment a little with it the next time I go to the range. Been raining here in Ohio for the last 3 days in a row though.....

                                garyt1957

                                I agree. All of his (J.H.'s) swings look the same. But as he says it's his intent / feel that counts. I can't do the extreme back ball position, but today I played the ball about 2- 3 balls back of middle with an inside takeaway. I hit some really nice shots. The premise of Channel Lock makes sense to me. As an upper body swinger my shoulders can spin open too soon, so the whole closed shoulders thing makes sense.

                                I think all these different methods will work for many people. It just takes commitment and sticking with it. In the end I'm always looking for better ball striking as it seems my scoring stays the same regardless of which method I use.

                                  sdandrea1

                                  I've heard Bryson DeChambeau's irons are as much as 9-10 degrees upright and of course he uses jumbo grips. Moe Norman swung more flat with his high hands and Bryson swings more upright. Again, all these different swings work, it's just which one works best for your swing.

                                      Sneakylong BD's irons are 37.50" 73 deg. upright well they were when he played Edel but I would think very close with Cobra.

                                          scotts33

                                          Ping's G400 6 iron is listed at 37 5/8" long with a 61.1 degrees lie angle. That makes his clubs around 12 degrees upright. That's pretty upright.