Looking at the Tour 18 course in the Dallas area. Might play it this weekend. Got me to thinking. What do you think are the best holes for each number "on Tour".

I'll start it off... (let's try to keep it to a Par 72 layout)

1 - Kapalua - Par 4 [Blackwolf]
2 - Augusta National - Par 5
3 - Oakmont - Par 4
4 - Augusta National Par 3
5 - East Lake - Par 4
6 - Pebble Beach Par 5
7 - Pebble Beach Par 3
8 - Pebble Beach Par 4
9 - Harbor Town - Par 4
10 - Oakland Hills - Par 4 [Riviera]
11 - Augusta National - Par 4
12 - Augusta National - Par 3
13 - Augusta National - Par 5
14 - PGA National - Par 4
15 - TPC River Highlands - Par 4
16 - Shinnecock Hills - Par 5 [TPC Scottsdale - Par 3]
17 - TPC Sawgrass - Par 3 [St Andrews - Par 4, Straits]
18 - Olympic - Par 4 [Straits]

#4 Par 3 (240 yards) at Augusta - Flowering Crabapple.

#10 Par 4 Oakland Hills, Troy Michigan

JMO.

#18 Par 4 Olympic, San Francisco is a challenge.

I think Riviera’s 10th hole is worth mentioning, best short par4 in golf.

The opening hole at Kapalua is hard to beat too.

Tough to leave off" The Road Hole" St. Andrews. Or does it not count because it's not a regular tour stop.

I suppose Sawgrass 17 would be better though with the ability to make anything from a 1 to a 10.

Straits 17 or 18

Blackwolf original #1

livegolf I might add Pebble for the 8th, as well. Might be the best consecutive holes in the world.

    #16 par 3 TPC Scottsdale. Easy whole until you have 10,000 people screaming at you!

    One could pretty much put every hole at Augusta National on that list.... several holes from Pebble Beach as well. Hard to discount the Road Hole at St. Andrews that was mentioned earlier.

    I tend to discount the stadium-arena effect, otherwise I would agree about #16 at TPC Scottsdale. But based on the aesthetics and the hole design alone - I couldn't include it for those reasons. Not to mention that I abhor the drunken foolishness aspects that tend to carry on there. Not to say that it isn't a fun hole... just not a great hole.

    I think the par3 12th at Augusta is perhaps the finest par3 in the world. Short, incredibly simple on paper... but enormously complicated that final round on Sunday at the Masters. Is it a wedge? A soft 9-iron? Do you aim for the middle of the green over the front bunker, or do you throw caution to the wind and go pin-seeking and risk disaster? The beauty of that hole is precise simplicity. And that simplicity has ruined many a hope there on Sunday when a lack of precise focus and carelessness have taken over.

    Don't know that there's a more intriguing par3 in all of golf.

      PA-PLAYA I think the par3 12th at Augusta is perhaps the finest par3 in the world... Don't know that there's a more intriguing par3 in all of golf.

      I put the 17th at The Player's Club on my list because it too is an intriguing hole. Many tournaments have been won or lost there on Sunday afternoon. A hole that is short enough that every amateur has a fair shot at landing a ball on the green. Put water all the way around it and a talented golf professional or leisure suit Larry alike suddenly have two hands squeezing their neck and sweaty palms after sticking a tee in that box.

          mikeintopeka

          Two thoughts come to mind. (1) - I tend to look at the organic nature of the layout when it comes to rating certain holes.

          And by "organic" - I'm speaking more specifically to the natural topography of what the architect had to work with, versus the man-made and fabricated aspects of going out of his way to invent risk-reward aspects. Alister MacKenzie didn't have to dig a huge hole around the 12th green at Augusta and fill it with millions of gallons of water to create drama. He simply designed an average-sized green, allowing the natural contours of the land just beyond a small creek to decide whether or not a player had executed a shot well enough to avoid disaster.

          (2) the other point worth noting - a huge part of what makes the 17th at Sawgrass so intriguing is where it lies in the layout itself. If Mackenzie had designed the layout at Augusta to make the 12th hole at Augusta the 17th hole... there would be an even greater increase in drama and excitement imo. Yet despite where the par3 at Augusta resides in the back-nine layout - it doesn't take away from the drama and excitement whatsoever. Just as many tournaments were won or lost on the 12th at Augusta as there have been on the 17th at Sawgrass.

          I guess I'll summarize by asking this: If the par3 12th at Augusta was the 17th hole, and the par3 17th at Sawgrass was the 12th hole - would the par3 12th island green at Sawgrass hold the same dramatic value as that of the par3 17th at Augusta?

          I don't think it would.

          But this is a really good discussion nevertheless... lots of arguments to be made to support one's thoughts. I just tend to support the organic nature of the design of a hole above and beyond the man-made features added to make a hole "great."

            Tpc river highlands for the 15th maybe

            PA-PLAYA - I know where you are coming from in your opinion. I've walked Augusta National during The Masters and without a doubt deserves its lofty acclaim. I've played courses that also are ranked as among the best in the world and my two favorites where the designer blended the course into the natural lay of the land are Pebble Beach and Sandhills. I have also played TPC Sawgrass and marveled at the resulting track because Pete Dye created a masterpiece out of a huge swamp. Construction was hampered by near daily encounters with critters, gators, and poisonous snakes in addition to navigating equipment in and out of the muck. Dye had doubts about being able to finish the project once construction started and #17 as we know it today wasn't in his original plans. During the playing of The Players, if you watch the action on the tube, there's a couple camera angles that have either the 17th tee box from the 16th or from behind the 17th with the 16th fairway in the background. I occasionally catch the guys walking along the 16th peeking ahead at what lies ahead.

            So while I agree with you and the majesty of the 12th at Augusta National, I can also justify my pick. There's an old saying that replicating someone else's work is the best form of flattery. I know I've played at least 5 other courses that have their own form of the 'island green' and all were built after the completion of TPC Sawgrass.

                mikeintopeka

                The 17th at Sawgrass is indeed an iconic hole... Dye has been ordained as one of the modern-day great architects for the very reasons you mentioned - that he can take an unworkable piece of property and make something memorable out of it.

                I've played several of his layouts and can easily conclude that he created something that very few other modern-day architects could replicate.

                Two of the more prominent layouts of his that I've enjoyed over the years is the Dye course at Barefoot landing in Myrtle, and the Dye course at PGA National in Port St. Lucie, both of which are open to the public with daily tee times. Not to mention the Ocean Course @ Kiawah Island in SC, where the '91 Ryder Cup was hosted. It joins TPC Sawgrass as two of his more renowned Dye layouts that I have not had the pleasure to experience yet.


                    #3 Oakmont par 4 with the church pew bunkers

                    #8 Pebble Beach par 4 along the ocean

                    #16 Shinnecock Hills par 5

                    Looks like we need three 4's and a 5 to finish this out. A par 5, fifth hole and the others should be par 4's. Unless we make a really good case for a par 71 or 73 layout. If we keep with the averages we're looking at now, we're on pace for a 6,921 yard layout for a par 72. Anyone know of a really long par 5, 2nd (or 5th) hole anywhere?