Dumbest Thing I've read today, via the internet......

Par4QC · 2017-10-03T21:58:45+00:00

"These people who don't even live in the U.S., the last best hope of man on Earth, think they know what's best for us." But........we know what's best for...

johnnydoom

Perhaps no one is claiming to say that, but it sure is implied in the arguments/questions presented just above my initial entry. My argument against making availability difficult is simply that it doesn't seem to work with other items in the U.S. Banned substances find their way into the U.S. by van loads and large quantities seemingly in a steady stream. Some are caught with large quantities, but many apparently are not judging by the overall size of the drug trade going on. Guns are large, but not significantly enough more than bricks of powder or bales of weed that we could expect much more success if the street price is high enough. If someone with money wants to commit major mayhem, they'll get the materials whether through legal or illegal means. Its not that it was so easy to obtain the guns, it was that in this person's mind, it was easy to justify using them.

Par4QC

johnnydoom A few years ago, a guest at the hotel where I work, left behind a magazine and I was looking thru it. It was about guns/ammo,etc.. Had pics of an AK47, or whatever it was, that iirc is illegal to own, inc. a complete breakdown/diagram. 1/2 of the magazine was dedicated to selling parts for guns. I compared the diagram to the parts that could be ordered and discovered I could actually purchase a complete AK47 to assemble. Costly as hell, thinking total of parts was around $20K or so. Cheap, considering you can't buy them. Still, it was accessible legally.

Par4QC

johnnydoom Its not that it was so easy to obtain the guns, it was that in this person's mind, it was easy to justify using them.

This!!

Many, way too many, shootings right here in my area. Gangs, Mexican and blacks(proven). Drive-bys that have even killed innocent children at backyard parties. Quite possibly all of these shootings/killings were done with illegally owned guns as the ones that are caught all seem to have priors. Where do they get those guns? I should ask, who sells them the guns? And the law should also be asking that question of everyone that is caught. Bad as it sounds, if I were the judge, I'd give leniency to the guy that gives me the name of the seller. I'd give the seller life. Every time. If the law says I can. Death penalty if I could!!

Only 1 time locally have they got the seller. 16 yrs.. Not near enough, but this is from damn judges that put repeat drunk drivers back on the road. Every time.

Weirfan

PA-PLAYA

How would a home invader know if a house has a gun or not whether that be here or there? I couldn't tell you what houses in my hood have a gun or not and I've lived on my street 25 years. Similarly, my with friends in the US, most ive visited don't have guns at least I've never seen anything other than one.

PA-PLAYA

Weirfan

You just proved my point. An across-the-board ban of firearms would create a situation where the lawful would comply, and the criminals (obviously) would not.

Good luck with that 6-iron! And hopefully you wield yours better than I do mine on the course! lol

PA-PLAYA

Par4QC

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Instead of contemplating what law-abiding gun owners think - maybe society would be better off trying to figure out what criminals are thinking.

But gun owners are always the villain in these discussions for some strange reason, not the criminals committing the crimes.

Par4QC

PA-PLAYA But gun owners are always the villain in these discussions for some strange reason, not the criminals committing the crimes.

Again, never said that. Nor even think it!

johnnydoom

Par4QC The parts are legal to purchase if they are to be used in semi-automatic form. Not sure of the law, but I think everything except the lower receiver can be legally purchased through normal means. The lower receivers, or AK47 (if the receiver is produced in the U.S.) may only legally be purchased through the same channels as other gun purchases. You can even lawfully make your own lower receiver if used as a semi-automatic. However, the sale or possession of parts that allow fully automatic fire, or the act of altering or producing one to fully automatic fire is illegal. The only full automatics that are legal for citizens at large to own are those produced prior to passage of the firearms owners protection act of 1986, and that requires a special federal stamp, although I don't think it is that expensive. Legal to own fully automatic firearms are tremendously expensive as the supply consists of only those still around since before 1986. The bump stock was a loophole around all of that as it was claimed to be marketed for a different purpose.

Weirfan

PA-PLAYA

Who ,when and where did anybody say there should be an across the board ban on firearms? We don't have up here only that it's prohibited to carry a concealed firearm or any firearm.

The point was invaders cannot tell who or who doesn't own a gun so they dont decide where they break in based on that they decide 99 percent of the time to break in when nobody is home. That's consistent to both our great countries. Our self defense laws in a home break in are different however it seems. We can only use reasonable force to quell the situation. Its much more complicated than that mind you but essentially cannot kill an intruder unless we are at imminent risk of death ourselves. Because the majority of break ins never involve an intruder with a firearm , we can't just shoot or kill somebody for enterring our home unwanted. That would result in charges, quite possibly murder. Break ins happen all the time just like in other places I can't recall a recent situation where the homeowner shot or killed the invader. When it ever does happen it's all over the news as its such a rare an event. break ins are usually kids looking for cash and items to flip quickly. The kid up the street is a good kid, was troubled but a nice kid. He had apparently broken into a few garages and cars. He 's 16 , no weapons and id hate to have seen him shot by an overzealous gun owner. He's now clean and back in school , so far so good. Despite this unique approach we don't have more break ins , Violent home invasions remain exceedingly rare as are gun related deaths in general are some of the lowest in the world. So as a peaceful society by nature we are far from perfect but content and proud with our low gun death rate. It's perhaps why we react with such strong emotion when these senseless and tragic mass shootings happen anywhere or raise an eyebrow to the high number of accidental and suicidal gun deaths per capita and gang related killings versus what we experience.

puttnfool

rsvman So, you think when an intruder comes in with a gun, they're just gonna leave you alone as long as you don't bother them?

puttnfool

rsvman Seems like it would be elementary, but apparently it is not.

You know what they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

puttnfool

PA-PLAYA Address the real problem.

Can you post that again so I can "like" it again?

PA-PLAYA

Par4QC

I completely agree 1000%.

I am not against strict gun law enforcement. I'm not entirely against banning "gun shows" where a lot of these type laws are either completely discarded or fudged to make a sale.

I don't have an issue with that whatsoever.

puttnfool

candukid Sounds to me like 265 children should have had some firearms safety training.

candukid

puttnfool
That's the point really. But with anybody able to just go and buy a gun without the background checks and safety courses that should be mandatory, this will continue to happen. I am not saying to confiscate everybody's guns but just be damn sure that the right people get them with proper checks and balances. Why is the gun lobby so against that simple request? Up here to get s gun we need to go through all of that.

Par4QC

johnnydoom The bump stock was a loophole around all of that as it was claimed to be marketed for a different purpose.

From what I've read, gun owners must have been in the dark about those things; not quite sure why they were. Stores sold out very quickly after the Vegas shootings.

johnnydoom

Par4QC I don't think must gun enthusiast were unaware, just mostly uninterested. They may not be up anymore, but there used to be many youtube videos showing how to use them. The sales went up because the probability of a ban is almost certain and people wanted to get them while they still could. I wouldn't be surprised if the Feds weren't keeping tabs on those purchases as best as they could also.

puttnfool

PA-PLAYA and no court in this country would find me guilty of defending myself and my property if a confrontation ensues

Be careful... in NJ you'd got to jail and likely be convicted. You must attempt to run screaming from your home before you are authorized to shoot an intruder. You have to be physically cornered with nowhere to run before you can shoot an intruder. Talk about some bullshit. I'm so glad I left that hell-hole behind. Now, I'm in OK, where you can shoot someone breaking into your neighbors house and not get indicted for it!

Sneakylong

PA-PLAYA

"Illogical rational." Interesting. What's logically rational about justifying having a gun in your home when statistically the odds of being invaded by an intruder are much lower than someone known to the household being shot? Reading your posts you have a lot of irrational fear of being home invaded.

Why don't I read anywhere here from gun rights advocates why civilized countries with less guns / tougher gun laws have fewer gun deaths, and countries like ours with more guns and weak gun laws have more gun deaths? Again, I guess we Americans are inherently more violent. 🤔

Isn't it logically rational to conclude that the ever more escalation of gun violence / deaths in this country is directly related to the amount of guns out there and the easy access to them?

PA-PLAYA

Sneakylong

It is logical to conclude that the shit coming from your mouth is diarrhea, and you and I will never agree on this issue.

So keep on shitting from your mouth while I ignore you.

johnnydoom

Sneakylong If it were logically rationale that more guns equals more gun homicides, then how did the rate of gun related homicides in the U.S. drop by 48% over a twenty years period while gun sales were rising exponentially. If you want a stat that directly contradicts your argument, that is it. And it was printed by that noted conservative publication called The Washington Post. I know your stat confounds suicides into the equation, but suicides have occurred at rates equivalent or higher than the U.S. in some of these civilized countries you refer to.

puttnfool

Par4QC While an intruder may be armed, their intent is to merely rob you, in most cases. If you should suddenly confront them, armed also, you just endangered your family, I'm thinking.

Par4QC johnnydoom but basically to anyone that argues that criminals with guns aren't really a threat, but that lawful gun owners are somehow a threat.

Again, never said that, either one. Just a 'mind study', if you will.

Oh, you said it. Not word for word, but you definitely said it.

Par4QC

puttnfool Par4QC While an intruder may be armed, their intent is to merely rob you, in most cases. If you should suddenly confront them, armed also, you just endangered your family, I'm thinking.

Par4QC johnnydoom but basically to anyone that argues that criminals with guns aren't really a threat, but that lawful gun owners are somehow a threat.

Again, never said that, either one. Just a 'mind study', if you will.

Oh, you said it. Not word for word, but you definitely said it.

Just re-read it. Was not my intent. But, ANYONE with a gun is a threat. At certain times. The 'mind study' part is about the way gun owners think they are NOT Wyatt Earp, when faced with Johnny Ringo!!

(remember, Wyatt was scared!!)

Sneakylong

johnnydoom

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/11/14/more-guns-more-crime-new-research-debunks-a-central-thesis-of-the-gun-rights-movement/?utm_term=.6a139346da17

"Now, Stanford law professor John Donohue and his colleagues have added another full decade to the analysis, extending it through 2010, and have concluded that the opposite of Lott and Mustard's original conclusion is true: more guns equal more crime."

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review)

"Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the U.S., where there are more guns, both men and women are at a higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide."

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