• The Clubhouse

  • Dumbest Thing I've read today, via the internet......

Weirfan

No, you are ignorant. Which isn't a personal attack... you just don't know, because your experiences don't necessarily represent the mean.

Two blocks from my house, last year... the police raided two apartments. They were Meth Labs. The perps were big-time dealers in this very rural area, who were also found guilty of breaking into several local homes here and stealing personal property.

They also had an arsenal of weapons that were confiscated.

That's not paranoia. That's reality. Two blocks from my house. Rural Northeast Pennsylvania.

The drug problem here, like everywhere else, has forced people to be concerned for their personal safety. And given the 30-minute average reaction time for the police to show up - well.... do you or do you not choose to be vulnerable? If you do - I respect that. But don't hold it against me if I choose otherwise. šŸ™‚

      PA-PLAYA

      we have the same here. I live minutes from the largest city in Canada with a general population of close to 7 million. We have all the same issues that you have , have the the Russian,Asian, Italian mafias , every gang under the sun with mob and gang people targeted all the time. there are stories every day of drug busts and guns seized, we have shootings in high crime low income areas daily. we have meth labs, no different than you. this summer A kid up my street was arrested for stealing and dealing coke and meth , 3 cop cars on a Sunday morning on his lawn. A grow op around the corner that I walk the dogs by every day with my son. its all just noise and Nobody feels the need to be armed in self defense and we still have some of the lowest gun deaths in the world. Many do own guns for recreational use but they are locked away as is the ammo. There are home invasions and in almost 100% of the cases nobody is killed , the perps get what they want and leave even if they have guns which in many cases they dont. Now if there were homeowners carrying a loaded weapon that's not likely to be the case..... somebody is probably going to be shot likely on both sides of the equation.... fact remains that you have a far greater chance of choking at dinner than being subject to a home invasion. Add to that that only 1/100 home invasions occur when people are at actually at home and of that tiny percentage only 7% of that 1 percent were the victim of a violent crime , even less were actually killed. I cant be convinced that guns are needed or help in any way. it IS nothing more than paranoia. heck I dont even have a home security system and never have but they are commonly used. I am glad you store your guns properly. Its the law up here, they cannot be outside of the locker only to be transported with mandatory trigger locks and when that is the case they cannot be loaded. its a criminal offense to carry a concealed weapon, many types are outright banned completely and that common sense translates to significantly less guns, less gun deaths which we are happy about and laws that nobody complains about . this all obviously helps and saves many of the gun deaths that rsvman references . almost all of the banned weapons that are used and confiscated in Canada and used in many of the violent crimes are tracked back to coming from the US.

        PA-PLAYA My guns are safe... in a safe. My wife and I are the only ones who know the combination lock. Not sure how that creates a situation where it puts my family at more risk.

        Might I ask.....if you are asleep and someone busts in your front door......how far are you from the safe?....and how far is the front door from your bed? IF someone should just bust in, they know if you are home or not, and where your bedrooms are(surely they cased the place, and I don't think breakins are that random). They will immediately seek you out, before any robbery, or in an effort to get any cash you may have also. How fast are you?

        While an intruder may be armed, their intent is to merely rob you, in most cases. If you should suddenly confront them, armed also, you just endangered your family, I'm thinking.

            Really difficult to understand that way of thinking. You are willing to take a chance that someone with a gun who willfully breaks into your house knowing you are in there is only there to take your stuff, but not willing to trust a person who has never committed a felony with a gun because an accident might happen or a person bent on committing suicide might access it?

            Also, there are quick access safes these days that one can keep on the bedside table these days if that is a worry.

              Par4QC

              I've timed it. It takes me 10 seconds to get out of bed, go to my safe, retrieve my .45 Glock and chamber a round. (I do not keep rounds in the chamber).

              Anyone who breaks into my house for evil reasons is no longer solely protected under the constitutional rights of the US, and no court in this country would find me guilty of defending myself and my property if a confrontation ensues. And you damn well better believe that I'm not gonna sit on my ass and watch someone jack my 55 inch widescreen without a fight.

              And if I die - oh well. But I can guarantee you that the sonofabitch breaking into my house won't ever put another family through that trauma ever again.

                  johnnydoom Really difficult to understand that way of thinking. You are willing to take a chance that someone with a gun who willfully breaks into your house knowing you are in there is only there to take your stuff, but not willing to trust a person who has never committed a felony with a gun?

                  Was this directed at me?

                  If so, I said neither. I was asking questions.

                      Par4QC

                      More or less, but basically to anyone that argues that criminals with guns aren't really a threat, but that lawful gun owners are somehow a threat. And not as a personal attack, I'm just relaying that I obviously don't think like you do. I understand the fear that bad people can steal guns if they are available, but that still requires tolerance of allowing that bad guys will steal. I think the focus should be on getting rid of the bad behavior, not accepting it and trying to limit it by reducing access to tools.

                          johnnydoom but basically to anyone that argues that criminals with guns aren't really a threat, but that lawful gun owners are somehow a threat.

                          Again, never said that, either one. Just a 'mind study', if you will.

                              johnnydoom

                              Nobody is saying that, it's just the perceived threat is negligible . Home invasions are rare , home invasions where it's done with somebody at home are extremely rare( 1 percent) . Home invasions with somebody home and where the home invader has a gun are exceedingly rare and it's even rarer that a home invasion with somebody home results in the homeowner being killed. The rationale of needing a gun for such a rare situation makes zero sense . You might as well wrap your whole family up in bubble wrap when they leave the house too. Nobody is saying that legal gun owners should have their guns taken away but the facts are indisputable that homes with guns have significantly more gun deaths. nothing with any reputable research behind it can say that having a gun helps in those situation verus no guns, in fact often the opposite result ( confrontation ) happens. You want and need my 55 inch tv that badly take it I will help you load it in the car. They are $900 , I'll buy another tomorrow. Do random bad things happen, sure everywhere. US is historically steeped in gun culture, that's not going to change nor do I think that is what is wanted. There will always be gun gangs and gun death. Also unfortunately accidental and suicidal deaths with so many guns in close proximity to the home. Perhaps the latter is acceptable.?
                              For me personally I question those high powered military grade mass killing units and why they are needed and available so easily. How does a guy get 47 legally so easily. If these types of guns were banned some will still find there way in, we have them and they come from places where they are legal but it's much harder to get them and they are much less frequently found and used and it's jail time if caught with one. It does make a big difference

                                  Weirfan

                                  What would those percentages of home invasions be if the would-be invaders knew that the homeowners had no means of personal protection, beyond a golf club, baseball bat, etc.? Are we to assume that the criminals are likewise merely armed with golf clubs or baseball bats? Prohibition has proven that this logic doesn't hold water.

                                  Stats can be manipulated however one wants to reinforce their opinion.

                                  Known knowns vs unknown unknowns. Which is why stats, often times, are meaningless. Lots of extenuating circumstances that go both ways.

                                      PA-PLAYA if the would-be invaders knew that the homeowners had no means of personal protection, beyond a golf club, baseball bat, etc.?

                                      If the invaders are coming into your house, and know you are there, they do not care what means of protection you might have.

                                      Don't know the stats, but I'd think these types, that come in knowing you are there, will not do it in the middle of the night. They know the high % would be that you are close to any guns you might have. If they catch you watching TV in the living/family room, or eating supper/dinner....gotcha!

                                      Don't get me wrong, guns are just fine by me(except the automatics), it's the thinking of gun owners that intrigue me.

                                          Perhaps no one is claiming to say that, but it sure is implied in the arguments/questions presented just above my initial entry. My argument against making availability difficult is simply that it doesn't seem to work with other items in the U.S. Banned substances find their way into the U.S. by van loads and large quantities seemingly in a steady stream. Some are caught with large quantities, but many apparently are not judging by the overall size of the drug trade going on. Guns are large, but not significantly enough more than bricks of powder or bales of weed that we could expect much more success if the street price is high enough. If someone with money wants to commit major mayhem, they'll get the materials whether through legal or illegal means. Its not that it was so easy to obtain the guns, it was that in this person's mind, it was easy to justify using them.

                                            PA-PLAYA

                                            How would a home invader know if a house has a gun or not whether that be here or there? I couldn't tell you what houses in my hood have a gun or not and I've lived on my street 25 years. Similarly, my with friends in the US, most ive visited don't have guns at least I've never seen anything other than one.

                                                Par4QC

                                                Perhaps. Perhaps not.

                                                Instead of contemplating what law-abiding gun owners think - maybe society would be better off trying to figure out what criminals are thinking.

                                                But gun owners are always the villain in these discussions for some strange reason, not the criminals committing the crimes.

                                                    johnnydoom A few years ago, a guest at the hotel where I work, left behind a magazine and I was looking thru it. It was about guns/ammo,etc.. Had pics of an AK47, or whatever it was, that iirc is illegal to own, inc. a complete breakdown/diagram. 1/2 of the magazine was dedicated to selling parts for guns. I compared the diagram to the parts that could be ordered and discovered I could actually purchase a complete AK47 to assemble. Costly as hell, thinking total of parts was around $20K or so. Cheap, considering you can't buy them. Still, it was accessible legally.

                                                        Weirfan

                                                        You just proved my point. An across-the-board ban of firearms would create a situation where the lawful would comply, and the criminals (obviously) would not.

                                                        Good luck with that 6-iron! And hopefully you wield yours better than I do mine on the course! lol

                                                            rsvman So, you think when an intruder comes in with a gun, they're just gonna leave you alone as long as you don't bother them?

                                                              rsvman Seems like it would be elementary, but apparently it is not.

                                                              You know what they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

                                                                PA-PLAYA Address the real problem.

                                                                Can you post that again so I can "like" it again?