Lanchor.....

ode · 2017-06-30T21:56:02+00:00

Watching coverage in FS1 of the Sr. US Open, putting #14 for eagle....he definitely anchors....I could see his shirt indent around his left hand from anchori...

Par4QC

Then again, it is a game of 'honor', no?

If someone is blatantly cheating, and if he is anchoring it is blatant, and beating the field every week, SOMEONE is going to speak up. Behind the curtains, of course.

PA-PLAYA

I get the feeling that a lot of the guys on the Champions Tour suspect that Langer and McCarron are still anchoring, but the USGA has made it nearly impossible to distinguish between the legal vs illegal standard. And perhaps that was by design, to remove themselves (and rules officials in general) from being the judge and jury... placing the onus on the players themselves to police it and deal with it.

I'm not aware of a single incident in which any player has directly confronted either of them about it, however. Maybe it has happened behind the scenes, who knows...

I go back to how incredibly thin the dividing line is between the anchoring/not anchoring standard. That makes it almost impossible for a fellow playing competitor to determine. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not happening. It just means they're more willing to give the player the benefit of the doubt, especially if the player himself is truly the only one who knows if he's bracing his hand against his chest.

But it sure as hell looks like they're still anchoring to me from what I've seen on my television. Whether it looks the same standing 20 feet away - obviously I can't say.

Here's another aspect, as it pertains to if that was me in that situation... I would personally want to avoid doing anything that could bring my integrity under a cloud of suspicion. So even if I know in my heart of hearts that I've altered my technique just enough to comply to the new standard, I'd still personally feel like I'd always be under the microscope and my fellow competitors might suspect I've not changed anything.

Yet Langer continues to putt well most weeks and win a lot of tournaments. So there doesn't seem to be any negative pressure there regarding him feeling like he's being closely monitored and scrutinized every time he putts. So either he's not anchoring, or he simply doesn't have much of a conscience if he still is.

I would struggle putting well, legally or not, being in that situation.

Eguller

Agreed. If the USGA 'really' wanted to make sure that no one anchored the putter, they would
have changed the rule in a manner similar to the driver ( 48" max). Putter = 38" max. Simple solution.

Their shirts are definitely indented. Is that anchoring ? It is if clothing = equipment. JMO.

GLFTPS

I agree that it does look like he is anchoring. I think the USGA made a mistake is banning the long putter as it helped many average golfers enjoy the game and stay with it. I never could use a long putter but I some of my friends really miss it.

lambo

Understand the questions, but in reality Langer is very clear. He sets up with the putter anchored, makes his practice strokes anchored and then when setting up for his actual putt slightly moves his anchored hand off the anchored position and makes the stroke.

This totally legal and legit. I will draw attention to his top hand. Notice his elbow position and hand position don't change when he moves the putter from his anchored practice position to the non anchored stroke. Then he makes his stroke with a shoulder movement. Try this and you will realize how easy this is to do within the ridiculous rules. If you do move your top hand you will also feel it immediately and it takes just a short period of practice to learn to be very firm and still holding this position. How much do you need to move your hand from being anchored to being non anchored? The answer is just enough to not be pressing your body. Can you still be touching your shirt? Try this right now as you read. Put you right hand in a putting grip a against your chest elbow out in the Langer position and then move your hand just a bit to remove the pressure of being fixed against your chest. You will probably still be in slight contact with your shirt. Notice how easy it is to keep the position when your elbow is out and you maintain the angles.

The USGA non anchoring rule had a much greater impact on those that used the belly anchor position than the longer putter. However, even this was address by placing weight in the grip end of the putter - "counter weighted" putter grip. The purpose of the anchored belly putter was to stablize the butt of the putter against your body and promote the "body" stroke. The additional weight in the grip has the same purpose - stablize the end of the putter and promote using the larger muscles to create the putting stroke. However, the crossover from a belly anchor to a counter weighted putter is not as easy.

ode

lambo not the way I see it, what you see on that video further serves as his alibi.....and is not what he did on Friday on #14, there was no moving the handle away from his chest....and I've now seen him do it like that multiple times!

lambo

ode I did not see the tournament. Is there a video available? Trying to determine the pressure or lack of pressure based on the shirt indention becomes extremely subjective. In truth no one really knows except the individual holding the putter.

To me the rule was simply a bad decision. I did anchor for several years and tried several different methods. After the rule was in effect I went back to convention putting, but quickly realized I could do better using a longer putter without anchoring. In my case this also lead to trying several different approaches and building three different putters until I settled on my current putter and method of using it.

I am curious, did you ever use a long putter and anchor with it?

When you do what Langer is doing you realize there is no real difference between anchoring and not anchoring once you learn to use your top hand with your elbow pointed down the line of your putt. In reality the extended elbow becomes the method of "anchoring" the butt of the putter to your line. Once Langer removes the pressure of the anchor from his chest his thoughts in this regard will be fixed on holding the elbow (his now defacto anchor) steady.

I have tried this and have adjusted (length) of long putters for others to properly position the elbow. It works and is a very small physical and mental change from using the body anchor point. From the feedback of others it actually works better ( yes "better) than the body or chest anchor if you did not previously align your left elbow with your putting line. I believe this is actually also true for Bernhard. If you wish to look you will find he used to allow the left elbow to be more at his side. Even when he first decided to still use the long putter in the 2016 season he had his left elbow along his side. At that time he was learning to use the long putter non anchored. His style changed as the season progressed to where he is today. I suspect for Langer holding his elbow now as his anchor point for the butt of his putter has actually helped him as his focus for years has been to stroke using his shoulders. The extended elbow simply makes this motion even more pronounced and I suspect has been a benefit for Bernhard.

Btw, the tour has on several occasions followed up on fan complaints following the rule changes and examined video of Bernhard putting. In every case they came away confirming he was not anchoring.

PA-PLAYA

There have been times, in past tournaments, when I have noticed that his left hand could arguably be considered braced against his chest, as in his shirt looked much more "indented" than just through what would normally be perceived as incidental contact.

That said, from what I observed yesterday - his left hand was clearly away from his chest.

But there's another aspect to what the USGA has deemed prohibited as far as anchoring: the forearm anchored to the body during the stroke. And that, imo, is the other controversial gray area (that gets overlooked) that I speak of when determining whether one is utilizing an illegal technique that becomes incredibly difficult to determine.

It is worth noting that he putted rather poorly yesterday during the third round of the Senior US Open. Whether that's because of an increased perception that he's being more closely scrutinized (with it being a sanctioned USGA event) or simply because he struggled on the greens - is anyone's best guess.

It doesn't help matters that when he practices his putting stroke prior to his actual putting stroke - he does anchor. Which obviously creates some degree of suspicion/confusion.

It might be worth revisiting the rules as to what is/isn't considered an anchored putting stroke. But again - the official stipulated differences between the two are so subtle that it is almost impossible to determine whether or not something illegal is taking place. And again - the USGA deserves every ounce of blame for this for not creating a noticeable, detectable black-and-white standard that can more easily be observed.

I continue to contend that the USGA really didn't need to bother with changing this rule, especially as it pertains to the everyday recreational player who doesn't compete in USGA sanctioned events, yet wants to compete in his club events.

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/rules/anchoring/understanding-anchored-strokes.pdf

Spuzz

Aboiut two weeks ago, Dave Marr and the Rules Director of the Champions Tour along with Langer and McCarron did yet another segment showing what they are doing.
This was in response to the many call -ins they were getting.
The Rules guy was completely satisfied that nothing was improper.
Nothing will be done about it unless somebody has some undeniable proof of a blatant infraction.

So bitching about it is a moot point, since they aren't answering the phones now
lol

ode

lambo no never used a long putter, tried belly at a shop and could not imagine ever using one. Kudos to Langer that he has figured out a way to do his method....I'm not convinced he is putting legally every time. Your points are valid as to why it would be legal if that is what he's actually doing.

And the method still doesn't use both hands to maneuver the handle. I doubt we would ever have seen this method if the usga would have dealt with anchoring when it first started. It is what it is and for the most part the new rule has eradicated anchoring, which is good enough for me!

ode

Bamb....there is the evidence! As I stated on #14 Friday,..he absolutely does not pull the handle away from his chest....anchor and in direct conflict with what he says he does, practice routine=anchor, and then actual stroke=pull the handle away from chest, he does not do that, rarely have I seen him do that either, but in the video explaining it he does. And lol at the usga...intent, are you friggin kidding me! They call out Lexi and dj for sh1t and do not have the balls to penalize this Charlatan!

sdandrea1

ode

I watched the video. I can't tell if he moved his hand away from his chest and I can't tell that he didn't. I mean, he only has to move it a fraction of an inch - who can see that? He could be touching his shirt and technically not be anchored on his chest. The rule is impossible to enforce.

sdandrea1

I didn't read every post, so this may be redundant, but the way the rule is written, it's difficult to enforce. if someone says he's anchoring and he merely says he isn't, whatchya gonna do?

Rickochet

Why don't they just rescind the anchoring ban? It was allowed for many years and most in the industry wanted to keep it including the PGA club pros. Only a few high vis PGA pros were against it. Finchem bowed down to them.

LBlack14

USGA = CRAP

ode

Haney has called the usga out, play the clip in the link below. The dude anchors, here with his forearm....it's not a debate for me. I give Langer credit for visibly cheating in plain site and having the stones to continue to do so....pretty slick!
I suspect if you close up and slomo'd all of his putts this year you would have dozens and dozens of documented violations:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.golfdigest.com/story/hank-haney-rekindles-debate-over-the-legality-of-bernhard-langers-putting-stroke/amp

Spuzz

Golf Channel had more video this morning from yesterday? and briefly discussed it.
Not going to change anything, imo.

sdandrea1

It's the geezer tour - USGA is giving them a pass. 😉

PA-PLAYA

Langer was 8-under through the first two rounds, then came the questioning about his putting stroke being legal. Then he was 6-over his last two rounds on the weekend following the enquiry.

So he either became aware of the scrutiny and struggled under the natural stress of being under the microscope that he might be doing something not permitted, or perhaps he adjusted his putting technique to comply with the new standard because he no longer was flying under the radar.

Again... people seem to be focusing exclusively on his left hand, whether or not it's anchored against his chest. That's not the only part of this that determines compliance with the new standard. Per the USGA link I provided, it also explains that the left forearm isn't permitted to be anchored to his side - only his elbow. His forearm cannot be braced against against his body.

The USGA has introduced (for the first time, I might add) this inexplicable precedent of "intent." As in, "did you intentionally fail to comply with those two standards or was it merely incidental?"

Like I said initially... the USGA had no intention whatsoever of putting themselves or tournament rules officials in the position of directly enforcing the new standard. They created this rule in hopes that fellow playing competitors would police/enforce the new standard. And even when it was brought to their attention, they simply deferred to the player in question, ultimately giving him the final say regarding whether or not he was in compliance.

I will no longer find fault with Langer, McCarron, etc. regarding how they putt. This is all on the USGA now and the fact that they created an incredibly stupid, unenforceable rule that never should've been made to begin with.

I might also add.... the video showing Langer putting and obviously in breach of the new rule - that's an old video that shows him making a practice stroke. He, like a few others, maintain that they rehearse an anchored stroke before making their actual (legal) putting stroke. So there's nothing there to support an argument either way, since it's not illegal to make a practice stroke however one wants, as long as it's not the actual stroke.

I don't say that to exonerate Langer from any wrongdoing.... I have my suspicions like a lot of other people. But at the same time - the actual act of striking the ball is the standard, not the practice stroke. (just to be fair)

ode

PA-PLAYA I believe the link I posted coming from Haney's Twitter page was during a round....you can here him or commentator in the audio, seemingly being interviewed and going through the hilites of his round, one of them being an up and down where they showed the short putt, "wedged it to about a foot"....can't tell if its Langer it a commentator. Wouldn't make much sense to tweet a video of him practicing!

PA-PLAYA

ode

This was hashed about at Geoff Schackelford's website back when Haney initially posted this video to twitter a few months back, and a few regular contributors there (one who is a former touring rules official) who are closer to the goings on at that level than me and seem to be somewhat reliable sources) claimed that they watched the telecast and did the comparison via DVR to the footage Haney posted, which is why they claimed it was a practice stroke.

So I'm only assuming that what they argued was legit, especially considering that Hank didn't post Langer actually stroking the ball during that snippet of coverage. I honestly don't know... there's no proof that he stroked the ball with that technique, there's no proof that he didn't. Whether he did or didn't - naturally I can't say.

Hank has been critical of Langer's technique for a while, like many of us. Whether he posted a video snippet out-of-context or not - I guess is the question. I do find it interesting that he stopped the video prior to discovery of an actual putting stroke or not.

Again, just trying to be mindful of both sides of the discussion.

I do, however, find it incredibly interesting that a guy who shot 67-65 on Thurs/Fri, and was then questioned by rules officials, suddenly shot 72-74 on Sat/Sun. Again, whether that was because of the anxiety being place upon him because of this perception of wrong doing or perhaps an adjustment made to be in compliance... I have my suspicions.

That said, Bernhard Langer has never (to my knowledge anyway) done anything prior to this to cause me to question his integrity.

Regardless, I think most of us agree that it's a stupid rule, especially given the discretionary standard of proof being ultimately unenforceable. The USGA never had any "intention" of enforcing this rule imo, just throwing it out there under the guise that they were trying to uphold a certain standard of how the game is played.

And what burns my ass is that I play regularly with 2 guys who used to anchor with a long putter/belly putter... who used to be rather good players on the greens, who used to be highly competitive. The new techniques that both of those guys have adjusted and now employ as a result of this rule change has had an enormous impact on their scores and they're finding the game incredibly frustrating.

"Scott, I've putted like that since I took up the game 20 years ago," the one guy said to me earlier in the season. "It was like they just pulled the rug out from under my enjoyment of the game when they changed this last year. Now I'm not sure I even want to keep playing anymore. I can't be competitive in tournaments, my handicap has ballooned. I'm not sure I even want to bother with continuing to play after this year."

There ya go. Well done, USGA.