Lexi Thompson Assessed 4 Stroke Penalty. Loses Championship in Playoff!

TonyJesselli · 2017-04-03T03:27:26+00:00

Lexi Thompson was informed that she received a four stroke penalty as she walked off the 12th hole on Sunday at the ANA Inspiration. An email was received...

mcavoy

Spuzz
Well there's no doubt in my mind that the ball went back in a different position than when she picked it up. The question is intent and when the penalty was applied. The LPGA said they don't think it was intentional. Fine. And I understand the need to protect the field. But what about protection for the player in question? Lexi was given 6 holes to adjust to a 4 stroke penalty for an infraction that occurred 14 holes previously. 4 strokes is substantial by any measure and can affect playing strategy.

Spuzz

mcavoy
Definitely a penalty and I saw it in real time.
However, the second two stroke penalty, not informing her before her round and ultimately, the stupidity of allowing call ins, is the clusterfuck that makes no sense to me.
JMO

sdandrea1

mcavoy

Makes sense. Didn't know that. Thanks! That insult string above applies to the LPGA as well, then.

Ringoblack

Spuzz

Spuzz, you saw it in real time? And you could notice the infraction without the ultra-close up? Just asking.

pellmell

Bob Toski quit the senior tour after he was accused by other players of cheating by habitually replacing his ball incorrectly. He claims it wasn't deliberate but instinctual... to avoid spike marks. I'm not accusing Lexi of the same thing but she picked up the ball, didn't inspect or clean it, then immediately replaced it in the wrong spot.

MartinD

A couple of thoughts:
- all of this could have been avoided if Thomson had taken appropriate care in marking and replacing her ball...
- while the penalty is correct by the rules, it does seem very harsh given the minimal (if any) advantage gained, particularly where there is precedent for not imposing a penalty for playing from the wrong place (1957 Open Championship at St. Andrews - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Open_Championship )
- why not try something like make the players use a standard circular ball marker with a straight line drawn across the centre or some other form of marking so that there's no excuse for replacing the ball in the wrong place? (The coins I use to mark my ball (recent UK 5p) has a straight line on one side - I mark the ball with the coin behind the ball and the line pointing through the ball at the hole, so it's easy to put it back in the same place)

customgolfcenter

Yes, the ball was placed in the wrong spot (intentional or not, probably not). Yes, the penalty is valid since penalties have nothing to do with "intent". Yes, since she wrote the wrong score she should technically get a penalty for that as well.

So on paper, there's nothing wrong with what they did. But it's the how & why that's B.S. If the USGA wants to use video replay as a part of the game just like most other major sports these days, fine. But they need to do it THEMSELVES just like every other damn sport on earth. They need to have a team of people that sits and monitors the video feeds, and if they see something then they can call a rules official and have them go take care of it ASAP. A reported penalty shouldn't be able to come from any other source, except obviously from another player or caddie who witnesses something in person the course. And there should also be a time limit, like you can't assess a penalty once the next hole has started - or at the very least once a round is completed. In sports like football, baseball, basketball - once the next play has started, the previous play is over, no going back and changing anything. And those are all fairly fast moving sports and they're still able to have enough time to review anything that needs to be reviewed without interrupting the pace of play too much. So with golf - which moves at a snails pace - they shouldn't have any trouble monitoring each hole as it is played and report any penalties before the hole is finished. And if you do allow penalties to applied later in the round, then at the very least make it so once a round is completed and a score card is turned in then it's written in stone and can't be changed. Or if you do decide to allow penalties after the round is over, then don't also assess the scorecard penalty. Because what happened this weekend was horseshit. Allowing people to call/email/tweet about something they saw on TV is abso-f-ing-lutely ridiculous.

Sneakylong

"The ruling, by all accounts was a correct one, but is among those being assessed and possibly replaced by what is termed “a reasonable judgment standard,” that if a player in his or her judgement made a reasonable attempt at returning the ball to the correct spot that the player cannot be second-guessed."

These 'common sense' changes to the rules can't come soon enough for me. But we'll have to wait until 2019. Hopefully they'll be no more fiascos like we've seen much too often recently.

Rickochet

I just watched the video for the first time. When she replaced the ball she moved it left some then back to the right some before setting it on the ground. It was very hard to tell how much if any it was moved. Not much if any. I think that was a chicken shit call period. Whenever a player marks a ball it technically will never be in the exact location. What diff does it make if the ball is 3 cunt hairs off? When a player marks his ball and remarks a club head away to get it out of someone else's line, how accurate do you think that remark will be?

Regarding the two shot penalty for signing an improper score card is total BS. It was correct when she signed it. The LPGA changed it later.

PA-PLAYA

Several thoughts, in no particular order. The first, of which, will no doubt be unpopular.

Firstly... check out the video, for undeniable proof. No question she failed to replace the ball accordingly. Whether it was by design, or unintentional - matters not as it pertains to the rules. It would be expected that a player at that level does the one basic thing that every golfer, be it amateur or professional, understands to be unwavering. Had this been 1/8 inch, maybe even 1/4 inch - I don't think there's enough "proof" to validate either way.

Secondly... the penalty for not replacing the ball accordingly, which is a 2-shot penalty, was warranted. What wasn't warranted, however, was the additional 2-stroke penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard imo. Back when Tiger played his drop from the wrong spot at the Masters (might've been three years ago?) and it was called in after the fact, the ruling was he would be assessed a 2-stroke penalty from playing from the wrong spot, but no additional penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard. And I think it would've been warranted the same in this occasion.

Thirdly... marking a ball from a foot? I just watched the Drive, Chip and Putt at Augustan National last evening. My god, do I feel bad for the viewers based on the 2-minute pre-shot routines being honored by these young kids. Just hit the freaking ball already. These kids obviously watch pro golf on television. Why, Lexi, do you need to even mark a 1-foot putt?!

Thirdly 2.0... as much as I loath the USGA, they're not involved in this one. This is on the LPGA, just like it was last year. They seriously need to get their collective shit together.

Fourthly, and lastly... I watched the Drive, Chip and Putt from Augusta last evening. At first glance, I was like, "how cute! Young kids who obviously love the game, who are very good at the game." Until I started noticing the 2-minute pre-shot or pre-putt routines. It was apparent that whoever taught them did them a huge disservice by informing them not to mimic the guys/gals they watch on television. Then my attitude changed. Dear god, please don't ever let me be behind one of these kids during a round of golf.

Which begs the question: Lexi - why go through the pains to mark a 1-footer?

The game is played much too slowly as it is. She could've easily rolled that putt in without marking. But for the sake of "sticking to the almighty pre-shot routine!" - we gotta continue through the process that turns 4 hours and fifteen minutes into 5 hours.

The way Lexi handled the news was incredibly admirable. She didn't lose points from me. The way the LPGA handled this was horrid.

Note to the broadcast networks - stop zooming in on the ball. This takes away the opportunity for the shit-stain armchair callers who obviously don't have a life.

The viewer call-ins need to stop.

Rickochet

PA-PLAYA The viewer call-ins need to stop.

I thought that the PGA dealt with this several years ago?
I say zero video reviews by anyone. Leave it up to the players and the on course officials.

PA-PLAYA

Rickochet

Just assuming, but you're probably referencing the USGA's rule change (18/4), which was instituted shortly following the situation with Tiger's ball moving in the 2013 BMW Championship. "Where enhanced technological evidence shows that a ball has left its original position and come to rest in another location, the ball will not be deemed to have moved if that movement was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time."

Obviously this rule really didn't apply to Lexi replacing her ball in the wrong spot.

I'm not in favor of changing the rules simply because of the perceived harsh nature of the penalty, per say. Especially when it involves a penalty due to the most basic, understood responsibility of a playing competitor. But in these rare instances when a player has unknowingly broken a rule, and it isn't brought to light prior to the conclusion of the round (versus prior to the conclusion of the competition) - it doesn't seem equitable to further penalize the player an additional 2 strokes for signing an incorrect scorecard.

The argument from some might be, "Well, in the past she would've automatically been DQ'd, so she's getting a break really."

I don't agree. And Lexi's situation is precisely why I don't agree, because there needs to be some measurement of common sense when applying penalties in these type situations, otherwise it changes the entire outcome of the tournament when this type of information is presented to the offending player during play of the next round.

The 2 strokes for replacing her ball improperly isn't an issue. She clearly didn't replace the ball anywhere near where its original position was prior to marking. The issue is that it took 24 hours for that information to be processed and relayed to the player, AFTER the conclusion of the round in which the infraction took place.

The issue(s) are that the scrutiny that only a handful of players experience because of televised coverage focusing mainly on them isn't equitable as it relates to the remainder of the field, and viewers who call in/email and report what they feel are unrecognized infractions might not be processed in a timely manner as it relates to the overall integrity of the competition.

In other words, either cover every player in the field via television or don't respond to calls/emails until the competition is closed. This really isn't that complicated.

But as it relates to Lexi - she goofed. And she probably goofed unknowingly, unintentionally... but on that same token - how distracted can someone be to not remember precisely the position of the marker behind the ball from literally 30 seconds earlier? It would be unfair to assume she needed a 1-inch advantage, either way, on a putt of such a short, trivial length, but she clearly didn't replace the ball in its original spot.

2 strokes - yes.

4 strokes - unfathomable.

letthebigdogshunt

This should not happen ever. How on earth can you assess a penalty after the round is finished and the next round has started? Stupid rules to allow this to happen. Even more stupid to allow some non descript idiot who sends an email into the LPGA saying there was a problem with a ball misplaced the day before. The round is over the next rounds' play has started forgetaboutit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Lexi beats the field by four shots and loses to someone who finishes -14 when she actually was -18. She did make that mistake, but how many players in the field mismarked a ball on the green during the four days? When they have TV with shots of only the best players during the last two rounds of a tournament how is this fair for the whole field? No offense to So Yeon Ryu, but she did not really win this tournament. Lexi will be the Champion in my eyes this year.

Golfster

I see both sides of this but feel the four stroke penalty was too much. I felt so bad for her. The extra 2 strokes for the scorecard is what kills me. Maybe we need to strike some sort of balance, possibly call it done afters each days round is complete, not thru till the end. idk

Rickochet

I think the sad thing is that the LPGA will not (can't) admit that the rulings were improper. So, how does this crap come to an end?

PA-PLAYA

Rickochet

Just a thought... but remember when Tiger's 3rd shot at the par5 15th in the Masters 3-4 years ago hit the flagstick and rolled back into the creek? Then he took an improper drop, then that entire fiasco broke out after he signed his card that Friday evening?

The USGA's rules were fairly clear as how to proceed.

The tournament committee felt that DQ would not have been justifiable. They assessed him a 2-shot penalty, amended his score from Friday's round accordingly, and told him to play-on.

At the time, there was enormous criticism... "preferential treatment because it happened to Tiger, they didn't want to risk losing tv ratings, etc." LOL... like Augusta National needs improved ratings, or that they feel they need to bow down before certain players. LOL

In retrospect, they handled that situation perfectly. Despite running contrary to the high-and-mighty USGA rules. And did the USGA come out and say anything negative afterward, talking about how egregious the Masters tournament committee acted, etc.? Hell no they didn't. Why? Because the Masters tournament reserves the right to run their show however the hell they want. And if it means sidestepping stupidity and implementing common sense, then all the better.

The LPGA could've done the same thing, had they wanted. They chose not to. Shame on them.

It was just a couple years ago when commissioner Tim Finchem considered the idea to invoke a local rule allowing the anchored putting stroke, despite whatever the USGA decided when that entire issue was still being debated. The PGA Tour, the LPGA Tour.... the USGA doesn't own them. These are exclusive organizations who use the USGA rules as a base for competitive play, but they're not obligated to follow everything to the letter. It's their prerogative.

raggmann54

If they are going to allow this to continue to occur then they need to televise every shot by every player to be fair and consistent to each player. Of course this would be impractical or impossible to do, along with making it a 24 hour telecast and day on the course. So, maybe the sponsors need to get together and tell the USGA/PGA/LPGA to get their shit together or we are out till you do. If I were the tournament sponsor you can bet the mortgage they would be getting an ear full from me for days. If they can't do that then no off-course phone calls, emails or on-course tweets should be permitted. Each group has an official with them so if competitor or official does not see something then nothing happened.

Rickochet

raggmann54 Each group has an official with them so if competitor or official does not see something then nothing happened.

Exactly. How difficult would this be for the PGA and LPGA to implement? And as was posted earlier this was probably posted by a Lexi hater. Not fair.

ode

The problem with the Woods scenario at Masters was the committee initially looked at it and did not see the infraction, and did not assess the penalty until it was made clear to them what happened....and I believe this was a during round (when committed initially looked at it) and post round/after card signed (when they realized there error and assessing penalty). It was the committee correcting there own error for not protecting TW initially as it would have been corrected before the card was signed.

It was simply a flaw in logic by the usga.....if someone signs an incorrect scorecard and there are no post round assessed penalties, then sure, DQ them,you should know what your score is!.....but if there is a post round penalty assessed, for whatever reason, then there should be no additional penalty as it was not decided until after the round, unless intentional cheating is going on.....and IMO the overwhelming majority of these situations are for honest mistakes, not cheating. Two completely different scenarios, yet they used to handle them the same and for how long?

PA-PLAYA

ode

You're correct. On both counts.

Sneakylong

One more time. If the proposed rules changes are adopted in 2019 what she did would not be a penalty.

Here's the same scenario if it happened in 2019. A home referee feels compelled after he / she DVR's Saturdays round and sees that Lexi did not put her ball back in the same location emails the LPGA with his / her find.

The LPGA officials confront Lexi with this new information the next day. She responds that 'she made a reasonable attempt to return her ball to the same location'. With that answer she cannot be 'second guessed'. There is no penalty assessed. Absurdity avoided.

The email referee at home goes back to his / her Cheetos bag and the tournament is not tainted with stupidity.

Something else to consider with the current rule. When a player has to move their ball because they're in another players line, who decides if they moved it back to it's previous location? That would seem impossible to get back to it's original spot.

Some idiot calls up and says the players club angle did not match up with where his eyes were looking when he moved his ball or some other ridiculous claim that has no bearing on anything. Again, in 2019 there is no penalty because of the reasonable attempt language. Absurdity is avoided.

Bottom line. Golf should get back to policing itself. Get rid of home referees and these stupid archaic rules that have no effect on anything except to show how stupid many of these rules are.

The USGA needs to end all this absurdity now, not wait until 2019.

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