KCee but I think off center performance is improved for less than elite ballstrikers.

Yep well said. What does that say about today's golfers. 😉

      scotts33 What does that say about today's golfers.

      I think us hackers have been around since the game began lol I use the excuse that I didn't start playing until I was 30, but I probably would still suck even if I started at 3 yrs old.

          I have seen pretty big jumps in forgiveness, both directionally and off center distance just by moving up 7 years, forget 20. It’s not that you are gaining a ton on perfect contact, but when you miss by 1/4” it’s a big difference.

          KCee I think us hackers have been around since the game began lol I use the excuse that I didn't start playing until I was 30, but I probably would still suck even if I started at 3 yrs old.

          Give a golfer today a 195cc persimmon and they'd give up the game. LOL Not really because like Harney Penick and Ben Crenshaw always said take out your 3 wood (modern size 180cc) and make a nice pass. Same basic size as an old persimmon and playing length 43.50".

              scotts33 I wouldn't mind experimenting around some with a persimmon wood. Might be fun when I get out and play 9 late in the afternoon/early evening and see what it's all about!

                  scotts33 Hey Scott...it is 2024...look at the calendar. 😄

                  But, yesterday there was a group of young guys ahead of us. We got backed up a few times on the tee, so we got to watch them as they teed off. 1 of them pulled out a steel shafted driver(might have been a 3) and proceeded to hammer the snot out of it....high launch, straight as an arrow and wayyyy the hell out there! Made me smile.
                  I may take mine out for S&G, but whenever I used them 'back then' they were banana makers; always used my 4 wood off the tee. Dead straight with it.

                    ode 😄Want me to send you a few Molitors to make it even more fun?

                      ode Watch out Chad you'll get addicted to the persimmon wood "click". ☺

                      • ode likes this.

                        Thanks all! I ask because my 17 year old is really getting into golf. I found some of my old sticks and put together a set, but the TM R5 gave me pause. Don't want to give him inferior stuff, but if it's more of a forgiveness thing than anything else (which was my thinking), I'll wait until next year to buy him a new driver.

                          GimC Don't want to give him inferior stuff, but if it's more of a forgiveness thing than anything else (which was my thinking), I'll wait until next year to buy him a new driver.

                          Make sure he learns on inferior stuff as he'll appreciate the newer better stuff. That's how most of us all started. 😉

                              GimC Learning that he needs to hit the sweet spot is not a bad thing.

                              Have him use some face stickers or foot powder spray to really check where on the face he hits it.
                              Make a game of it.... 😉

                                scotts33 I started with persimmon woods 3, 5 and a Ginty. Those were my favorite probably because the rest of the bag my dad gave me had some very tiny blades. It was a relief when my father-in-law gave me his Eye2 irons even though they were fugly. I forget what the blades were, but apparently they were worth something and when my dad heard that he immediately took them back and sold them lol.

                                  ode I wouldn't mind experimenting around some with a persimmon wood. Might be fun when I get out and play 9 late in the afternoon/early evening and see what it's all about!

                                  Depending on what you want to pay there are some nice Hiro Honma persimmon drivers various flexes graphite 1 and 2 star on Ebay $50 to $100. There is an Extra 90 195cc that is a good head. A few from the US and mainly from Japan. Make sure if you buy that it's a factory installed shaft. I wouldn't pay much if not factory installed unless it was from a reputable clubmaker. Hiro Honma persimmon from 90's was some of the higher quality persimmon out there. Trevino played a Hiro Honma driver in the 80's. Won a British and the 1984 PGA Championship with Hiro Honma persimmon.

                                  I can steer you towards some good MacGregor, Hogan persimmon (Hogan would not allow crap clubs to leave the Ft. Worth facility) and also Toney Penna. This is when your garage sale itch can kick in cuz I have picked up some great persimmon bargains at garage sales.

                                    Huge difference for me. My new Mizuno STx is almost a cheat code for me. Center shots go farther because I got the shaft fitted to me, so they launch higher and with much lower spin. But it is on off-center hits where the new driver really shines. Even if I hit it poorly, it gives me acceptable results. Because of that, I have more confidence and swing more freely, which also gibes me slightly better ball speeds.

                                    It's a win-win and a positive reinforcement cycle. All the new drivers are fantastic, but I would highly recommend looking into the Mizuno offerings. Because they are not one of the 'big five,' their prices are more reasonable. Anything the TM or Titleist or Ping or Cobra or Callaway can do, the Mizuno can do, too.

                                    I've only noticed increases in accuracy and forgiveness (off center performance). That being said, I have picked up a few yards since Callaway introduced the "jailbreak" club head design. Nothing significant, though.

                                    You might see a bigger distance jump in a more modern head if you get a shaft that's a better fit for you.

                                    I also think the spin is more optimized today for a given target market of a given head. If anything, spin is lower overall today.

                                    ode

                                    Not in any COSTCO store I've been in or on-line. No irons, wedges or putters either.