Scoring ?

ode · 2023-09-22T02:36:13+00:00

I'm on hole 12. I hit my tee shot just short of where it needed to be to have a clear approach to the green. have to punch between 2 trees to get up to th...

Luc_Van_Daele

Unplayable (need to find the ball) gives you more options : 2 clublenghts sideways; drop as far back as you want on the line of the flag to the ball; replay previous shot. Lost ball (unless in marked penalty area and marked ground under repair area) has only the option of replaying last shot.

DonM

ode
Don’t forget the new local rule e-5 option for lost ball. Don’t go find your ball, then it’s lost.

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2018/golfs-new-rules/Alternative%20to%20S%26D%20Model%20Local%20Rule.pdf

Your can google local rule e-5 for more explanation.

You probably could have dropped over beside the trees, assuming you’re on a dogleg.

sdandrea1

Rules? There's rules?

MartinD

A couple of posts have stated that you need to find your ball to declare it unplayable - this isn't the case, as per Rule 19:

19.2 Relief Options for Unplayable Ball in General Area or on Putting Green

A player may take unplayable ball relief using one of the three options in Rule 19.2a, b or c, in each case adding one penalty stroke.

The player may take stroke-and-distance relief under Rule 19.2a even if the original ball has not been found and identified.

But to take back-on-the-line relief under Rule 19.2b or lateral relief under Rule 19.2c, the player must know the spot of the original ball.

(Taken from https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=19)

I've used this a few times in the past - when I've hit a shot that I know has finished somewhere that I can't play it, I call it unplayable and rehit the shot with a stroke and distance penalty.

It may also be worth pointing out that a player cannot declare their ball as lost (as per the definition of Lost - https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=definitions&subrulenum=35)

ode

MartinD what does "general area" mean? And does it also infer that golfer knew the ball went in that area to apply the rule......like in my instance, I could have just applied the rule without looking as I saw it go into the wooded area?

TIA

DonM

MartinD Thanks, I didn't think you had to find the ball in order to declare it unplayable. But I had thought you could just say "That ball is lost." So unplayable it is. 🙂

And that rules out my advice to proceed under e-5. Unless he looks and doesn't find it. And then I need to research if you can invoke e-5 on your own, absent any guidance from the course, or does the course have to have adopted it.

fatshot

ode What's f,ed on my course is virtually nothing is marked anymore. No red stakes, no yellow stakes, and most of the OB stakes are gone

Reminds me of the time I was coaching the HS golf team and it was our turn to host the league tournament. I asked the course owner (where I also worked) if I could stake the holes on the course for the tournament b/c it really wasn't well marked, and I knew that it would lead to disputes, etc. He said OK, so I must have made 30-40 wooden stakes, painted them white, red, or yellow, as appropriate, and went out there the Sunday before the tournament to pound them in the ground, etc.

The tourney came and went, no problems, and I didn't go out to the course until I worked the next weekend. By
that time, the owner had taken most of them down, had the greenskeeper drill holes in them, and was using them to put up ropes to prevent golfers from driving their carts too close to the greens, tees, etc. So much for giving a
damn about the rules of golf !!!

ode

fatshot lol, what a cheap bastage!

fatshot

ode lol, what a cheap bastage!

That described him to a T, lol....!!!

MartinD

ode what does "general area" mean? And does it also infer that golfer knew the ball went in that area to apply the rule......like in my instance, I could have just applied the rule without looking as I saw it go into the wooded area?

Also in the Definitions:

General Area

The area of the course that covers all of the course except for the other four defined areas: (1) the teeing area the player must play from in starting the hole they are playing, (2) all penalty areas, (3) all bunkers, and (4) the putting green of the hole the player is playing.

The general area includes:

All teeing locations on the course other than the teeing area, and

All wrong greens.

If the wooded area that you hit your ball into is part of the golf course (i.e. not out of bounds) and not a penalty area, you can declare the ball unplayable.

DonM

When you and I meet up to play a casual round, who is the committee? Are we the committee?

fnufan

DonM

There may be two different "committees" but may comprise the same people
The Competition Committee (as defined in the Rules of Golf) and/or the Handicap Committee (as defined in the Rules of Handicapping).
It is commonly accepted that if a competition is not being played then the 'group' is responsible for RoG decisions but not RoH. The HC is always responsible for handicapping rulings.
Remember, if a casual round score is to be returned for handicap purposes it must be played to the RoG set out by the R&A

ode

I could definitely.see taking an unplayable and going back to the last spot in certain instances where the lie and difficulty off the shot would lead to a big #.....it seems like a chicken sh1t thing to do, but the rules allow it. Unplayable might be too literal for some to actually do it!

fnufan

@DonM nM"#p336771
1) Saying your ball is 'lost' doesn't make it lost.
2) Not being able to see or find your ball doesn't make it lost (unless you have been searching for 3 minutes).
3) But playing again under Stroke & Distance (an option available when you can't find your ball or if you decide it is unplayable), the original ball is now out of play (in effect but not technically) making it lost and the new ball 'the ball in play'.

sdandrea1

I hate the USGA..........

ode

sdandrea1 lol they aren't that bad.

sdandrea1

ode lol they aren't that bad.

Ok......I dislike the USGA. 😉

ode

I get asked to be on "committee,s" all the time at work and I politely decline as I've previously accepted.the position long ago of being on "the committee that oversees all other committee's" 🙃

rsvman2

ode There is a 'committee on committees' at my work, too.

raggmann54

sdandrea1

sdandrea1 Ok......I dislike the USGA.

When the USGA pays my group's membership dues/greens fee we will follow all of their stupid rules. If we are playing for money we will follow most of their stupid rules. When we are playing in any other situation we will play by the rules we, as a group, agree to abide by. Our most basic rule - 1 in, 2 out, hitting 3, moving on - not going back to the tee, not looking for a ball for 15 min

Sneakylong

sdandrea1 Ok......I dislike the USGA

I don’t like the USGA as well. They’re out of touch with the average hacker playing at public courses.

When we had our senior mens association quota group we’d have local rules that we used. For example we had a ‘root’ rule.

If you were in danger of hitting a tree root we allowed moving your ball without penalty away from the root. No need to get hurt or break a club.

Most golfers don’t keep a handicap and don’t play in tournaments anyway. So the USGA is irrelevant to them.

I also don’t like that they regulate the game from the perspective of an elite player. When many golfers will never sniff shooting par and struggle to break 90.

And as I’ve said before I’d like to see the manufacturers turned loose as far as being able to make equipment than can help make the game easier for the 95% of golfers who play for fun.

Maybe they actually could make a ‘holy grail’ driver if they were turned loose.😎

sdandrea1

raggmann54 When the USGA pays my group's membership dues/greens fee we will follow all of their stupid rules. If we are playing for money we will follow most of their stupid rules. When we are playing in any other situation we will play by the rules we, as a group, agree to abide by. Our most basic rule - 1 in, 2 out, hitting 3, moving on - not going back to the tee, not looking for a ball for 15 min

Giphy - Happy Married At First Sight GIF by Lifetime

rsvman2

raggmann54 They changed the out of bounds rule a few years ago to eliminate the need to go back to the tee. A lot of people seem to have forgotten this, though.

It's a little bit more complex than just dropping a ball where it went out, but not a lot. The thing is, you have to add two strokes, not one.

So, if your ball goes into a lateral hazard or into water, 1 out, drop 2, hitting 3. But if it goes out of bounds, it would be 1 out, drop 2 and 3, hitting 4.

This preserves the difference between a lateral hazard and a true OB while eliminating the walk of shame and the holding up of play.

Personally, I would be happy if they got rid of the entire idea of OB and just called everything a lateral hazard and made all of them a 1-stroke penalty, but until they do, if I don't play a provisional, I am adding two strokes to my score if I hit it OB and taking a drop.